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Author Topic: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31  (Read 3503 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2017, 07:38:56 pm »
Kind of pointing at my question. IF starting with 65B, and IF half dies when you sprinkle... how can that guy claim 100B in a 1L bla bla bla you get my point

Offline bboy9000

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2017, 09:52:25 pm »
Exactly pointing to your question.  I remember when  people said one dry yeast pack was over-pitching a moderate gravity beer.  35-64B cells seems like that's not the case.
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Offline denny

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2017, 01:48:22 pm »
Good questions, guys.  I need to do more research.
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The Beerery

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2017, 04:07:51 pm »
If you look on the manufacturers site(specifically fermentis) you will see they recommend rehydration, their pitch rates ARE based off of rehydrated yeast.  Cell counts are often lower than quoted, and you kill roughly 50% from non-rehydration. So I know in the case of lager yeast. Most people are under pitching for sure.


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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2017, 04:16:02 pm »
If you look on the manufacturers site(specifically fermentis) you will see they recommend rehydration, their pitch rates ARE based off of rehydrated yeast.  Cell counts are often lower than quoted, and you kill roughly 50% from non-rehydration. So I know in the case of lager yeast. Most people are under pitching for sure.


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Even rehydrated... or the recommended cell counts of yeast pitching calculators are way too high.

Big Monk

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2017, 04:28:40 pm »
If you look on the manufacturers site(specifically fermentis) you will see they recommend rehydration, their pitch rates ARE based off of rehydrated yeast.  Cell counts are often lower than quoted, and you kill roughly 50% from non-rehydration. So I know in the case of lager yeast. Most people are under pitching for sure.


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Even rehydrated... or the recommended cell counts of yeast pitching calculators are way too high.

I always assumed 10-12B/gram

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2017, 06:15:54 pm »
If this is true it would seem there's the answer why so many dry yeast brewers also say they get better results on a subsequent batch by pitching slurry. What say you?

I thought there was some (my recollection is US05) that aren't recommended for repitching.  My recollection is that supposedly the initial pitch performs better.

I could be misremembering.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2017, 06:17:44 pm »
If this is true it would seem there's the answer why so many dry yeast brewers also say they get better results on a subsequent batch by pitching slurry. What say you?

I thought there was some (my recollection is US05) that aren't recommended for repitching.  My recollection is that supposedly the initial pitch performs better.

I could be misremembering.
Totally could be. I've used dry twice. Batch #1 and the challenge beer. Both were less that stellar.

The Beerery

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2017, 07:21:25 pm »
If you look on the manufacturers site(specifically fermentis) you will see they recommend rehydration, their pitch rates ARE based off of rehydrated yeast.  Cell counts are often lower than quoted, and you kill roughly 50% from non-rehydration. So I know in the case of lager yeast. Most people are under pitching for sure.


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Even rehydrated... or the recommended cell counts of yeast pitching calculators are way too high.

I wouldn't say rehydrated its low, barring you follow the manufacturer yeast specs.

For us05:
FERMENTATION: ideally at 18-28°C (64-82°F)
PITCHING: 50 to 80 g/hl

So for for 18c the pitch rate 80g/HL or 15.2g per 5 gallons REHYDRATED.


For 34/70
FERMENTATION: ideally 12-15°C (53.6-59°F)
PITCHING: 80 to 120 g/hl for fermentation at 12°C – 15°C (53.6-59°F).
increase pitching for fermentation lower than 12°C (53°F), up to 200 to 300 g/hl at 9°C (48°F)

So for 12c pitch rate 120g/hl or 22.8g per 5 gallons REHYDRATED
IF you want to ferment it cold you are looking at 57g per 5 gallons REHYDRATED

These are pitch rates at the low end of optimal, and moderate gravity beers....
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 07:23:16 pm by The Beerery »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2017, 07:30:54 pm »
I understand what the manufacturer says. You're missing the point I think

Big Monk

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Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2017, 07:43:24 pm »
I understand what the manufacturer says. You're missing the point I think

What is the point? That calcs are way off?

I think that's always been the nagging suspicion. I've seen 20+B cells/gram claimed in certain places. That's crazy talk.

Let's say for S&Gs that the 6B/gram on a US05 pack is given under the assumption that you WONT rehydrate and they are assuming 50% loss to shock. Even if you doubled that you're only at 12B/gram.

How anyone ever got 16-20B/gram is beyond me.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 07:45:39 pm by Big Monk »

Offline narcout

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2017, 07:59:13 pm »
I thought there was some (my recollection is US05) that aren't recommended for repitching.  My recollection is that supposedly the initial pitch performs better.

I could be misremembering.

Dry yeast is propagated in such a way that they already have sufficient lipids for 3 to 4 growth cycles without the need for additional aeration. 

You lose that advantage after the initial pitch so you would want to provide sufficient aeration when repitching.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 31
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2017, 08:28:01 pm »
I understand what the manufacturer says. You're missing the point I think

What is the point? That calcs are way off?

I think that's always been the nagging suspicion. I've seen 20+B cells/gram claimed in certain places. That's crazy talk.

Let's say for S&Gs that the 6B/gram on a US05 pack is given under the assumption that you WONT rehydrate and they are assuming 50% loss to shock. Even if you doubled that you're only at 12B/gram.

How anyone ever got 16-20B/gram is beyond me.
My point is the juxtaposition between saying that sprinkling 50-70billion dry cells is OK, but 100 billion from a smacked pack, or even 100 billion from a smacked pack into a 1L oxygenated starter pitched at high krausen... not enough, won't work.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 08:42:50 pm by klickitat jim »