Author Topic: brett beer  (Read 1235 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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brett beer
« on: January 08, 2017, 11:25:18 PM »
I'm thinking of brewing an all-brett beer. No spontaneous fermentation with entero/lacto/pedio stages, but simply using brett for fermentation. I was thinking of a crisp, sessionable beer that might also be the basis for adding fruit.  Mike Tonsmeire has a few recipes on his website (e.g., http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2007/02/1st-100-brettanomyces-brew.html), but they are all 10 years old, so I was wondering whether there are new insights. I would like the beer to be ready in under three months, if possible.  And I would be very curious to see what low oxygen brewing will do with this beer, if that would make sense at all.

Possibilities:
  • Mash souring?
  • Clausenii?
  • Blonde or darker?
  • Wheat?

Any suggestions are appreciated.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 11:31:51 PM by homoeccentricus »
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Offline kramerog

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2017, 11:56:12 PM »
That recipe shows a generally correct approach to making an all-Brett beer.  However, I would not crash cool a Brett starter because the Brett takes a really long time to get going again.  The better approach is to pitch the entire starter. Also it isn't necessary to ferment in the 80s.

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 12:07:05 PM »
I like a helles grist and brett.  It is like a wild dampfbier.  They are great.  Brett can be really clean if you give it what it needs.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2017, 12:37:29 PM »
And fermented at what temp?
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Offline kramerog

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 02:45:11 PM »
20-22C is good.  Could ramp up later if you want to dry out the beer.  Frankly Frank, there is some leeway  on the temp here

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 03:06:52 PM »
OK. Say I want to add some fruit (e.g., sour cherries) to a blonde beer, is wheat a must, or would the helles malts also work?
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 04:50:31 PM »
Any of your options are fine. An all-brett beer should reach a stable FG in under two months.

All-brett beer recipes basically follow the same rules as any sacc beer. The only meaningful difference IMO is brett beers can be somewhat flabby and really benefit from some bitterness and tannins, like a brett IPA, or a moderate amount of acidity. If you're adding sour cherries then you'll likely have a good amount of acidity and tannins, particularly in a pale grist.

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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 05:48:53 PM »
Have been reading a bit in MT's American Sour Beers. There's a reference to Oxbow Brewing Company, that ferments beer first with Brett Drie, and when 1016-1020 SG has been reached, finishes the fermentation with a saison strain, which adds some glycerol to the beer. That way the beer will not be excessively thin. Has anyone tried that?
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Offline erockrph

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 11:04:35 PM »
Have been reading a bit in MT's American Sour Beers. There's a reference to Oxbow Brewing Company, that ferments beer first with Brett Drie, and when 1016-1020 SG has been reached, finishes the fermentation with a saison strain, which adds some glycerol to the beer. That way the beer will not be excessively thin. Has anyone tried that?
I've done some reading on glycerol in wine after blindly parroting that same information about WY3711 for some time. From what I've read, it seems that the amount of glycerol being produced by Sacch doesn't actually reach a high enough concentration to give a perceivable increase in mouthfeel.

In the instance of 3711 (not sure if this is the saison strain used at Oxbow, but it is the one I most commonly hear referenced as a high glycerol producer), I think it is the increased acidity that it produces which helps the mouthfeel.

tl;dr - I think the saison idea is a solid one, but I wouldn't chalk it up to glycerol.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 02:46:18 PM »
OK, a plan is starting to unfold: pale grist (maybe no wheat at all), ferment with Brett Trois, finish fermentation with French Saison, then add a small amount of sour cherries for some acidity and tannins.  And then I'll call it Instant Kriek. That will piss off a lot of people here in Belgium!

How about wort souring?
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 03:52:28 PM »
I liked the brett as a stand alone.  It really surprised me.

I like some of the kettle sour beers.  If that's the route you're looking at then I would go for 5% flaked grain.  Either rye wheat oats barley.  I suppose that's my preference to have a little 'softness' from flaked grains in my sours.

If you want a kriek I say go all out as be a traditional as possible.  It's yet something I have committed to.

Why finish with French saison if you plan on souring?

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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 04:03:51 PM »
Why finish with French saison if you plan on souring

Good point. What would be the lowest pH a saison yeast can comfortably survive?
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 04:09:54 PM »
Why finish with French saison if you plan on souring

Good point. What would be the lowest pH a saison yeast can comfortably survive?
I wouldn't say the lowest.  However it may be problematic and unnecessary like.   If you are going to sour then the French saison strain may lose its purpose.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 04:12:30 PM »
Isn't brett trois a sac yeast? According to white labs it is

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: brett beer
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 04:26:15 PM »
Why finish with French saison if you plan on souring

Good point. What would be the lowest pH a saison yeast can comfortably survive?

Low 3 ph (about 1/4 stick of ph range) but you need to pitch like it's a lager and give it time. Could probably pitch less if the yeast are active from a SNS starter.
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