Author Topic: different forms of wheat  (Read 2042 times)

Offline denny

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2017, 05:11:34 PM »
You left out raw wheat.  ;)

To me, pretty much the same flavor as flaked.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2017, 05:20:40 PM »
Torrefied (though it's a bi##h to crush) has a sort of popcorn character to it that the other forms don't have IMO.

Does it actually need to be crushed?
I'd recommend it. They don't dissolve readily (I learned that the hard way once). Think of them as Rice Krispies cereal - it would kinda suck if they dissolved in milk.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2017, 06:23:51 PM »
You left out raw wheat.  ;)

To me, pretty much the same flavor as flaked.
My memory is numb on all the information given as it was while drinking a pint after a competition our club put on, a buddy asked Jolly Pumpkins Ron Jeffries (BoS judge), what he thought the differences were. He had an opinion on each one, and would use different forms for different beers, depending on flavor, mouthfeel, appearance and I forget what else. For a guy who is usually pretty quiet, he expounded for a long time.
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Offline Mythguided Brewing

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2017, 06:03:57 AM »
Excellent question.  I dare anyone to provide an answer based on real life side-by-side experimentation.  I myself do not have this answer.  I use them pretty much interchangeably based on whatever I happen to have on hand or whatever is on sale.

I actually did this when I really started getting into all-grain recipes - I compared red vs. white wheat malt & flaked wheat vs. torrified wheat.  By all means trust your own nose/palate, but here are the notes I took during my side-to-side comparisons:

Red Wheat Malt (Briess):  Wonderful flavor w/candy-like sweetness and very smooth mouthfeel; subtle wheat/malt aromas

White Wheat Malt (American):  Candy-like sweetness w/light honey flavors; very chalky mouthfeel; faint honey & caramel aromas

Flaked Wheat:  Thick, creamy mouthfeel w/subtle sweetness; faint "wheaties" aromas; zero fluid release - begging for a stuck sparge

Torrified Wheat:  Thick, creamy mouthfeel w/subtle sweetness; faint "wheaties" aromas; good fluid release

So flaked vs torrified wheat flavors and aromas were no different (to me), but I always use torrified just to avoid the possibility of a stuck sparge, and to receive more runnings.

I also tend to use Red Wheat Malt instead of the White, simply because I didn't like the chalky mouthfeel of White Wheat Malt (but it definitely has more of a honey character to it).

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2017, 11:33:11 AM »
I actually did this when I really started getting into all-grain recipes - I compared red vs. white wheat malt & flaked wheat vs. torrified wheat.  By all means trust your own nose/palate, but here are the notes I took during my side-to-side comparisons:

Red Wheat Malt (Briess):  Wonderful flavor w/candy-like sweetness and very smooth mouthfeel; subtle wheat/malt aromas

White Wheat Malt (American):  Candy-like sweetness w/light honey flavors; very chalky mouthfeel; faint honey & caramel aromas

Flaked Wheat:  Thick, creamy mouthfeel w/subtle sweetness; faint "wheaties" aromas; zero fluid release - begging for a stuck sparge

Torrified Wheat:  Thick, creamy mouthfeel w/subtle sweetness; faint "wheaties" aromas; good fluid release

So flaked vs torrified wheat flavors and aromas were no different (to me), but I always use torrified just to avoid the possibility of a stuck sparge, and to receive more runnings.

I also tend to use Red Wheat Malt instead of the White, simply because I didn't like the chalky mouthfeel of White Wheat Malt (but it definitely has more of a honey character to it).

Fantastic assessment.  Thank you!  I will take a closer look at torrified, sounds like a winner.
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2017, 04:08:38 PM »
I can't believe no one mentions winter wheat to spring wheat and the flavor differences.  The red wheat/winter wheat is rich, white wheat is sweet in my side by side hefe.
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Offline Mythguided Brewing

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2017, 08:57:20 PM »
I can't believe no one mentions winter wheat to spring wheat and the flavor differences.  The red wheat/winter wheat is rich, white wheat is sweet in my side by side hefe.

That got me to thinking: my original complaint about the chalky mouthfeel of the white wheat might be a pointless one if I paid more attention to an adequeate vorlauf (which might remove the itty-bitty particles causing that chalky feel)...

Offline Pricelessbrewing

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2017, 03:09:03 AM »
Another difference between malted wheat, and raw wheat (including flaked) is beta glucan content. Raw wheat (also flaked wheat), has high % of beta glucans, much like flaked oats, and will contribute to body and head retention and increase wort viscosity so be careful with that mashtun manifolds ye non-biabers!

I haven't seen a malster spec sheet that measured it, but I imagine torrified wheat does not have as high glucan content due to the exposure to high heat.

Offline Andor

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2017, 12:45:30 PM »
What about soft wheat? I was trying to find a  Blanche de Bruxelles clone the other day and their web site says brewed with 40% "soft wheat" I've never heard of it unless it's just another term for one of the other wheats.


http://www.brasserielefebvre.be/beer/blanche-de-bruxelles-export/

Offline mabrungard

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2017, 02:27:10 PM »
I recently made an American Wheat that used red wheat instead of white. I made that decision while standing in the homebrew shop sampling the red and white wheat from the bins. The comments above are similar to my observations...I just liked the way the red tasted when compared to the white...and I hadn't used the red before.

I'm not sure that those raw perceptions make their way into the finished beer, but I'm of the opinion that they are more likely than not to impart some of that character into the beer. One thing that I might be picking up in the finished beer is a slight increase in huskiness and graininess in the beer made with red wheat...but its only one data point.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2017, 04:25:27 PM »
I'm not sure that those raw perceptions make their way into the finished beer, but I'm of the opinion that they are more likely than not to impart some of that character into the beer. One thing that I might be picking up in the finished beer is a slight increase in huskiness and graininess in the beer made with red wheat...but its only one data point.

I brew quite a bit with wheat and prefer red wheat over white by a mile. Red wheat definitely carries more grainy/wheat bread flavor into the beer. White wheat tends to add a lot less to the flavor. White wheat is great when you want the protein content or to smooth out the barley flavor.
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Offline stpug

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2017, 04:52:45 PM »
Probably more detail than most folks want, but some will find it's content useful.  Granted, it's all raw grain data - no malted data.

source: http://www.einkorn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Grain-Nutrition-Comparison-Matrix.pdf
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 04:54:47 PM by stpug »

Offline Philbrew

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2017, 05:47:08 PM »
What about soft wheat? I was trying to find a  Blanche de Bruxelles clone the other day and their web site says brewed with 40% "soft wheat" I've never heard of it unless it's just another term for one of the other wheats.


http://www.brasserielefebvre.be/beer/blanche-de-bruxelles-export/
I live in wheat growing country and the wheat farmers often refer to white wheat as "soft" and red as "hard", although they also include the season of harvest (Winter, Spring, Summer).
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline stpug

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2017, 05:58:07 PM »
There is hard and soft in both "colors" of wheat (red/white).  See chart above for differences in composition.

You can see where various growing regions in the USA are located as well as what they're most likely to be growing in the following diagram:

Offline Philbrew

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Re: different forms of wheat
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2017, 06:17:51 PM »
Looking at the chart that stpug posted, the soft wheats (both red & white) are lowest in protein. 
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.