Author Topic: Factors controlling attentuation  (Read 1464 times)

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2017, 02:10:19 PM »
After having recently discovered I'm lactose intolerant, I will NOT be adding lactose to any future beers.  :P

Mashing high seems the best step to try next. What's the difference between a 30 and 90 minute rest at say 158oF?

The difference is so huge, it's YUGE!
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2017, 02:14:41 PM »
Mash temp matters for FG! For me a beer mashed high, will always finish high( but I only make all malt beers), with sugar all bets are off.



Yeah, I agree. All other factors being equal (grist, strain,etc.), varying only mash temp produces predictable, incremental changes in FG IME.
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Offline denny

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2017, 04:53:51 PM »
After having recently discovered I'm lactose intolerant, I will NOT be adding lactose to any future beers.  :P

Mashing high seems the best step to try next. What's the difference between a 30 and 90 minute rest at say 158oF?

You'll need to go really high based on my experience.  I think recipe design is a far better method.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2017, 06:09:18 PM »
After having recently discovered I'm lactose intolerant, I will NOT be adding lactose to any future beers.  :P

Mashing high seems the best step to try next. What's the difference between a 30 and 90 minute rest at say 158oF?

You'll need to go really high based on my experience.  I think recipe design is a far better method.

I've only got so much wiggle room in the recipe aspect when trying to brew historical recipes. The sugar, and the dryness it provides, are essential. I've subbed sugar for malt before when brewing British styles...it just doesn't work in my experience. The beers always turn out more balanced and "quaffable" when some sugar is used.

Going to have to play with mash temps. Any crystal malts that may help, without being sweet? Munich malt?
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline denny

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 06:49:56 PM »
I've only got so much wiggle room in the recipe aspect when trying to brew historical recipes. The sugar, and the dryness it provides, are essential. I've subbed sugar for malt before when brewing British styles...it just doesn't work in my experience. The beers always turn out more balanced and "quaffable" when some sugar is used.

Going to have to play with mash temps. Any crystal malts that may help, without being sweet? Munich malt?

Ya know, I don't really feel like crystal malt makes beer sweet...poor recipe design when using crystal malt does.  In your case, maybe something like carapils.  I have found Munich malts to be pretty much as hot as any other.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline erockrph

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2017, 10:13:08 PM »
I've seen many recipe's on Pattinson's blog that specify strangely low mash temps. My understanding is this is to make sure the beers dry out enough. (And with my experience with low FGs...yes they do)

I remember reading some where about high temp mashes producing wort that isn't fully fermentable, but still dry out nicely if the rest is long enough. Does this ring a bell?
I've brewed a few of Ron's recipes and have decided to throw their mash suggestions out the window. Modern malt is a completely different animal compared to those from 50+ years ago - it is much hotter enzymatically. Follow your own typical practice on your system. Mash hotter and shorter than usual if you still end up too dry.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2017, 01:27:26 AM »
When doing Ron's recipes, twice now, I mash for 60 minutes at the suggested temp and they fall into the ballpark.  Also true dark invert syrups don't ferment dry. 

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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2017, 01:37:55 AM »
Also true dark invert syrups don't ferment dry. 

That's the other variable that I've been wondering about. I've been using Lyle's Golden Syrup, cut with blackstrap molasses as per the unholy mess approximations.

A friend from work makes his own candi and invert syrups for brewing...I may try his methods and see how they work.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline kramerog

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2017, 01:43:05 AM »
Also true dark invert syrups don't ferment dry. 

That's the other variable that I've been wondering about. I've been using Lyle's Golden Syrup, cut with blackstrap molasses as per the unholy mess approximations.

A friend from work makes his own candi and invert syrups for brewing...I may try his methods and see how they work.
The unholymess approximations don't make sense to me.  Nobody says if you are short on caramel 60, blend caramel 20 and 120.

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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2017, 01:45:38 AM »
True, but shy of making invert from scratch it seemed the best option at the time. Unfermentables in invert would convince me to find some way to buy real invert, or make my own.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline kramerog

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2017, 01:53:07 AM »
True, but shy of making invert from scratch it seemed the best option at the time. Unfermentables in invert would convince me to find some way to buy real invert, or make my own.
If you are making invert no. 3, I think you have to neutralize the acid after inversion and to continue heating until the desired color is achieved.  I haven't had success with heating without neutralization. Let me know what your friend thinks.


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Offline brewcrew7

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2017, 03:58:47 PM »
I cannot reply with any authority of experience, but I think the fact that most of the blog recipes are for beers that were casked and sent off to pubs. In that case, any final gravity record would have indicated the initial cask gravity. The beer was conditioned and vented at the point of sale. Who knows what the real FG was. Ron may have spoken to this fact though it's emphasis is probably lost to us homebrewers?

Offline Phil_M

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Re: Factors controlling attentuation
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2017, 08:00:38 PM »
I cannot reply with any authority of experience, but I think the fact that most of the blog recipes are for beers that were casked and sent off to pubs. In that case, any final gravity record would have indicated the initial cask gravity. The beer was conditioned and vented at the point of sale. Who knows what the real FG was. Ron may have spoken to this fact though it's emphasis is probably lost to us homebrewers?

If this is the case, it would certainly explain a lot. Despite the (very) low FGs, the beers have not been lacking body or thin tasting. (Keep in mind, I serve them lightly carbonated, which would help this.)
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.