Author Topic: Boil temps - do they matter?  (Read 15536 times)

Big Monk

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Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2017, 09:41:42 PM »
Lol I quoted "American" literature here. 
But to answer your "serious" question the literature I quote is teaching material at the brewing schools. To top that off Kunze was updated in 2015 if I am not mistaken . So are you calling schooled brewers with degrees and phd's foolish for their coursework? Do you have recommendations for more current works? 


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I said I agreed with you bud. And a lot of stuff is taught in a lot of schools. Should it all be taken at face value?
When backed by empirical and repeatable data, yes. At least until new data proves otherwise.

Couldn't agree more, this is a big reason why I don't buy into all this homebrewers scale lodo stuff.

I think you missed Stevie's point.

Offline Stevie

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Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2017, 09:43:47 PM »
I honestly believe most of the Low Oxygen stuff is legit. I have worked some of it into my process, but I have too many other limitations to adopt it and test fully. For some the change in process may not be worth it, but that doesn't mean it's bunk.

Is there empirical evidence that showing that it doesn't matter at the homebrew scale? Sure lots of preferential and anecdotal evidence, but I haven't seen numbers against it.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2017, 10:27:47 PM »
I honestly believe most of the Low Oxygen stuff is legit. I have worked some of it into my process, but I have too many other limitations to adopt it and test fully. For some the change in process may not be worth it, but that doesn't mean it's bunk.

Is there empirical evidence that showing that it doesn't matter at the homebrew scale? Sure lots of preferential and anecdotal evidence, but I haven't seen numbers against it.


Yeah. I get that things like autolysis aren't as big an issue as quickly at home because we only have a small fraction of the pressure on our yeast as Keith does at Yellowhammer. But as for oxidation, how could it not be a legit concern at home? The same oxidating air exists in the home as well as at a brewery. I've done a few batches now, and IMO oxidation/lodo is absolutely legit. I have 2 young Dunkels at just over 3 weeks now and the difference is stark. In a couple weeks when the beers are crystal clear, I'll do the triangle to see what others say.
Jon H.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2017, 11:32:02 PM »
I honestly believe most of the Low Oxygen stuff is legit. I have worked some of it into my process, but I have too many other limitations to adopt it and test fully. For some the change in process may not be worth it, but that doesn't mean it's bunk.

Is there empirical evidence that showing that it doesn't matter at the homebrew scale? Sure lots of preferential and anecdotal evidence, but I haven't seen numbers against it.


Yeah. I get that things like autolysis aren't as big an issue as quickly at home because we only have a small fraction of the pressure on our yeast as Keith does at Yellowhammer. But as for oxidation, how could it not be a legit concern at home? The same oxidating air exists in the home as well as at a brewery. I've done a few batches now, and IMO oxidation/lodo is absolutely legit. I have 2 young Dunkels at just over 3 weeks now and the difference is stark. In a couple weeks when the beers are crystal clear, I'll do the triangle to see what others say.

Look forward to the results of that Jon. 

Offline tommymorris

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Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2017, 02:39:09 AM »
I honestly believe most of the Low Oxygen stuff is legit. I have worked some of it into my process, but I have too many other limitations to adopt it and test fully. For some the change in process may not be worth it, but that doesn't mean it's bunk.

Is there empirical evidence that showing that it doesn't matter at the homebrew scale? Sure lots of preferential and anecdotal evidence, but I haven't seen numbers against it.


Yeah. I get that things like autolysis aren't as big an issue as quickly at home because we only have a small fraction of the pressure on our yeast as Keith does at Yellowhammer. But as for oxidation, how could it not be a legit concern at home? The same oxidating air exists in the home as well as at a brewery. I've done a few batches now, and IMO oxidation/lodo is absolutely legit. I have 2 young Dunkels at just over 3 weeks now and the difference is stark. In a couple weeks when the beers are crystal clear, I'll do the triangle to see what others say.
I don't doubt that low dissolved oxygen brewing is generally a good thing. But, I would like to see a triangle test to see if the average drinker can taste the difference between brewer with a low dissolved oxygen process  and home brewed beer with a more typical amount of dissolved oxygen during brewing.

I brew 3 gallon batches that last 3-5 weeks in the keg. If the primary benefit of a low dissolved oxygen process is shelf life then maybe I don't need to bother.

The Beerery

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Re: Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2017, 02:57:22 AM »
Thats right here.


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Offline bboy9000

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Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2017, 03:15:30 AM »
I brew 3 gallon batches that last 3-5 weeks in the keg. If the primary benefit of a low dissolved oxygen process is shelf life then maybe I don't need to bother.
I'm tired of my pale ales going stale after 1-2 weeks.  I just received my Hanna DO meter today.  I was going I break it in on a BoPils but this nearly empty keg of cardboard APA I'm finishing makes me want to brew it LODO.  I did over boil this batch tho.  By like 8 points. Oops.  It was my first brew at my new house and it was a late Friday night brew after a long week.  Many things likely went wrong.  Some had the stale flavor before though and in those cases it wasn't from aggressive boiling.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 03:40:32 AM by bboy9000 »
Brian
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2017, 03:37:43 AM »
Quote from: alestateyall link=topic=28551.msg374795#msg374795
I don't doubt that low dissolved oxygen brewing is generally a good thing. But, I would like to see a triangle test to see if the average drinker can taste the difference between brewer with a low dissolved oxygen process  and home brewed beer with a more typical amount of dissolved oxygen during brewing.



Well, that's my plan. I feel like I've noticed an obvious improvement but I want to see what a group of brewer friends think. As for the lodo process only extending shelf life, that's a misconception. The beer tastes better from the get go IMO. We'll see if the triangle backs that up.
Jon H.

Big Monk

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Re: Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2017, 03:59:53 AM »
Quote from: alestateyall link=topic=28551.msg374795#msg374795
I don't doubt that low dissolved oxygen brewing is generally a good thing. But, I would like to see a triangle test to see if the average drinker can taste the difference between brewer with a low dissolved oxygen process  and home brewed beer with a more typical amount of dissolved oxygen during brewing.



Well, that's my plan. I feel like I've noticed an obvious improvement but I want to see what a group of brewer friends think. As for the lodo process only extending shelf life, that's a misconception. The beer tastes better from the get go IMO. We'll see if the triangle backs that up.

I am eagerly awaiting these results. I think it's important for these type of results to be verified independent of our opinions.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2017, 04:05:20 AM »
Quote from: alestateyall link=topic=28551.msg374795#msg374795
I don't doubt that low dissolved oxygen brewing is generally a good thing. But, I would like to see a triangle test to see if the average drinker can taste the difference between brewer with a low dissolved oxygen process  and home brewed beer with a more typical amount of dissolved oxygen during brewing.



Well, that's my plan. I feel like I've noticed an obvious improvement but I want to see what a group of brewer friends think. As for the lodo process only extending shelf life, that's a misconception. The beer tastes better from the get go IMO. We'll see if the triangle backs that up.

I am eagerly awaiting these results. I think it's important for these type of results to be verified independent of our opinions.


Totally. I just want to be able to offer a data point whatever it is .
Jon H.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2017, 07:27:28 PM »
I brew 3 gallon batches that last 3-5 weeks in the keg. If the primary benefit of a low dissolved oxygen process is shelf life then maybe I don't need to bother.
I'm tired of my pale ales going stale after 1-2 weeks.  I just received my Hanna DO meter today.  I was going I break it in on a BoPils but this nearly empty keg of cardboard APA I'm finishing makes me want to brew it LODO.  I did over boil this batch tho.  By like 8 points. Oops.  It was my first brew at my new house and it was a late Friday night brew after a long week.  Many things likely went wrong.  Some had the stale flavor before though and in those cases it wasn't from aggressive boiling.

Besides other thing, do you have the ability to close transfer your finished beer from primary to keg?  I noticed a big improvement in my hoppy beer stability after switching to this.

Offline el_capitan

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Re: Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2017, 01:07:34 AM »
I've read that a good boil really looks more like a simmer vs a volcano.


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+1 - though I will say that it doesn't really matter except for your evaporation rate calculation 9and possible scortching if it gets insanely hot). You really can't boil too hard. The boil won't get hotter than 212 (depending on your elevation obviously). A gentle roiling boil will give you everything you need and save you gas and from having to top off with water at the end. On my 14 gallon kettle I can get the wort about a half inch from the top of the kettle and boil for 90 minutes without having a boil over (well, mostly.) Just got to gently feather that gas regulator.

It does matter.  TBI is very real.

TBI?  I think the use of acronyms without definition come across as pretentious and divisive.  You can't assume everybody knows what the heck you're talking about.  When I first started reading the LODO thread, I was very turned off by all of the SMB, BtB, etc.  It's almost like you need to be "in the know" or part of some clique to even gain access to the info.  Not very helpful, IMO (in my opinion).   ;)

The Beerery

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Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2017, 01:16:50 AM »
Acronyms are everywhere, and 99% of the time I don't even make them up ;) Take for example LODO. Hate the term and you will have NEVER see me use it! 

The link to what TBI( and TBA) is was like the 4th post in this thread.
But here it is again, cheers.

Thermal stress is placed on wort, more heavily so on long, excessively turbulent boils, resulting in excessive darkening of wort and may well impact malt flavor. Where advice used to be to target 10-15% evaporation, well under 10% evaporation may well ward off these effects. FWIW I get 7-8% evaporation.


Edit -   http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/low-oxygen-boiling/




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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2017, 01:23:55 AM »

Big Monk

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Boil temps - do they matter?
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2017, 01:24:18 AM »
I've read that a good boil really looks more like a simmer vs a volcano.


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+1 - though I will say that it doesn't really matter except for your evaporation rate calculation 9and possible scortching if it gets insanely hot). You really can't boil too hard. The boil won't get hotter than 212 (depending on your elevation obviously). A gentle roiling boil will give you everything you need and save you gas and from having to top off with water at the end. On my 14 gallon kettle I can get the wort about a half inch from the top of the kettle and boil for 90 minutes without having a boil over (well, mostly.) Just got to gently feather that gas regulator.

It does matter.  TBI is very real.

TBI?  I think the use of acronyms without definition come across as pretentious and divisive.  You can't assume everybody knows what the heck you're talking about.  When I first started reading the LODO thread, I was very turned off by all of the SMB, BtB, etc.  It's almost like you need to be "in the know" or part of some clique to even gain access to the info.  Not very helpful, IMO (in my opinion).   ;)



Also, pretentious is a word people love to use without stopping to think if it applies to the person in question.