[theDarkSide]

Forum meetup at NHC this year could be very interesting, if not entertaining   

[klickitat jim]

I agree with Narvin and Phil.

As mods, you need to understand that you are held at a higher standard and should behave as such. Have an opinion is great, trolling is not.

I have never been an intentional troll. If I did troll any one here on the forum I feel it was taken out of context. Please understand the fine line mods and myself have to walk here. We want everyone's views to be expressed, but at the same time we simply just can't have opinions being dictated to the point of absolute.

I am offering an olive branch here. But on the other hand, I'm not going to tolerate being discredited every time I want to post. And in the end, that is what has been happening. Not just to me, but to many others. This is not conducive to a healthy environment. There is nothing wrong with disagreements. But there is something wrong with judging other people's beer entirely by their expression of process based on a few claims that are, frankly, insubstantial. Or at the very least, completely over blown.

No one here has to agree with each other's processes. But telling people they are doing in wrong simply because you think you are doing it "right" without even tasting the "offending beer" is just ridiculous.

For instance, I recently posted that a gentle simmering boil was fine to a question posed by another member. I am sure I have made good beer by following this method. But I was told that I was wrong and that my beer was surely crap because I didn't understand the science. And if that isn't exactly what was said that was exactly how I took it.

I am a damn good brewer. And I am sick and tired of being told my methods are insubstantial based on other peoples views. Maybe your beers are superior to mine, I would certainly look forward to trying them. But the insisting on certain processes as being critically necessary and disagreeing with everyone else who has a different viewpoint based on their experience is stupid.

I have tried a lot of beer, including several of yours, and without hesitation I can say your beer is top shelf! If you're doing it wrong it sure doesn't show. Or I just have a bad palate or wrong personal preferences

Thanks! I had no idea you had tried my beer.

You shipped me some in a swap, remember?

[narvin]

just last week beerery stated Dennys past experiments with anti oxidants are invalid because of lack of pre boil. Are his past results now valid because he incrementally changed his brewing methods with the addition of AA or meta?

The validity of past experiments was called into question because if you use oxygen saturated water to mash in with, the results are moot. All your anti-oxidant power is used up fighting saturated water. That's all he was saying. It's really a small but important oversight really. After that point, you wouldn't really show a difference because you would have past the "point of no return" so to speak.

the point and which you claim to be the point of no return involves massive overhauls to your brewday,  once again why having a dedicated subforum seems like a good idea, heck maybe you guys could even moderate it.

I wouldn't mind a dedicated subforum for such a large topic, but you make it sound like a warsaw ghetto.  If some info leaks out of the forum, are you going to be extremely butthurt?

[majorvices]

I agree with Narvin and Phil.

As mods, you need to understand that you are held at a higher standard and should behave as such. Have an opinion is great, trolling is not.

I have never been an intentional troll. If I did troll any one here on the forum I feel it was taken out of context. Please understand the fine line mods and myself have to walk here. We want everyone's views to be expressed, but at the same time we simply just can't have opinions being dictated to the point of absolute.

I am offering an olive branch here. But on the other hand, I'm not going to tolerate being discredited every time I want to post. And in the end, that is what has been happening. Not just to me, but to many others. This is not conducive to a healthy environment. There is nothing wrong with disagreements. But there is something wrong with judging other people's beer entirely by their expression of process based on a few claims that are, frankly, insubstantial. Or at the very least, completely over blown.

No one here has to agree with each other's processes. But telling people they are doing in wrong simply because you think you are doing it "right" without even tasting the "offending beer" is just ridiculous.

For instance, I recently posted that a gentle simmering boil was fine to a question posed by another member. I am sure I have made good beer by following this method. But I was told that I was wrong and that my beer was surely crap because I didn't understand the science. And if that isn't exactly what was said that was exactly how I took it.

I am a damn good brewer. And I am sick and tired of being told my methods are insubstantial based on other peoples views. Maybe your beers are superior to mine, I would certainly look forward to trying them. But the insisting on certain processes as being critically necessary and disagreeing with everyone else who has a different viewpoint based on their experience is stupid.

I have tried a lot of beer, including several of yours, and without hesitation I can say your beer is top shelf! If you're doing it wrong it sure doesn't show. Or I just have a bad palate or wrong personal preferences

Thanks! I had no idea you had tried my beer.

You shipped me some in a swap, remember?

Yes I forgot! Thanks for the reminder!

[stpug]

This is a really silly argument to a very simple answer. This seems all or nothing to me. I have made great beers with  a simple simmer. Also with a vigorous boil. Why on earth should my opinion be called into question here? Is my experience fundamentally wrong? BTW I still have no idea what TBI is or wether is causes cancer or it just makes your beer f'ing suck.

I believe any disagreement in the answer comes from conflicting information published in brewing books coupled with homebrewers personal experience.  We've all been taught to boil hard, and that you can't boil too hard because that's how beer is made.  However, there is enough evidence to the contrary that perhaps the answer of "boil hard" needs to be reworded (revisited, actually) in terms that better illustrate what level of vigor is sufficient.  In addition to this, there have been so many times that someone's information has been brought into question requiring the actual source of information that it becomes easier to just post a screenshot of the source for all to see.

For instance:

[chumley]

Everybody had a hard year
Everybody had a good time
Everybody had a wet dream
Everybody saw the sunshine
Oh yeah
Everybody had a good year
Everybody let their hair down
Everybody pulled their socks up
Everybody put their foot down
Oh yeah

[dmtaylor]

Maybe it's time for a separate area for LODO, just like there is for Wedding Brewing.  To me, it would be an "Enter at your own risk" kind of thing.

this seems like a very good idea.

At risk of sounding like I'm trolling from the wrong "side" again, I agree with the above.  Much like the Hot Spot subforum on the Blue Board, low oxygen brewing might be, in essence, uninteresting, non-applicable subject matter to the majority of forum members.  Perhaps we should do a poll on the question:

Would you prefer the topic of Low Oxygen Brewing to become a separate forum or subforum?

If I start such a thread, would it be deleted or locked?  Is there a way to initiate a poll but not allow anyone to comment beneath it?  That might be ideal.  I guess I've never initiated a poll before (at least not that I can recall).  Maybe that is all that's needed.... a way to move this stuff to a forum that can be ignored by those who don't care.  Same thing as Hot Spot subforum on brews-bros.  If the "Unread" button in the corner of the page could be customized to purposely ignore certain subforums, then all might be well with the universe.

[tonyp]

New jersey is the Perry County of the US. Just sayin'. lol

I do not mean to offend anyone, including Bryan and Derek.

I dunno which ona yous guys is in charge over'ere, but I'd like ta call for this here guy's extractafication from his duties and replace him with my cousin jimmy, my brotha-law mikey the chin and a few other guys who are friends of mine that we need to be put on the books.

I'm not sayin, i'm just sayin, namsayin?

(I said that outloud in my best jersey+italian accent, btw.)

[narvin]

just last week beerery stated Dennys past experiments with anti oxidants are invalid because of lack of pre boil. Are his past results now valid because he incrementally changed his brewing methods with the addition of AA or meta?

Sigh... I don't think that people should be told that their results are "invalid".  But, he has stated that his Brewtan B experience resulted in improvements to the beer.  So, that does point to things that he (and all of us, myself included) missed in the past.

[denny]

Everybody had a hard year
Everybody had a good time
Everybody had a wet dream
Everybody saw the sunshine
Oh yeah
Everybody had a good year
Everybody let their hair down
Everybody pulled their socks up
Everybody put their foot down
Oh yeah

Thanks for that my friend!

[denny]

At risk of sounding like I'm trolling from the wrong "side" again, I agree with the above.  Much like the Hot Spot subforum on the Blue Board, low oxygen brewing might be, in essence, uninteresting, non-applicable subject matter to the majority of forum members.  Perhaps we should do a poll on the question:

Would you prefer the topic of Low Oxygen Brewing to become a separate forum or subforum?

If I start such a thread, would it be deleted or locked?  Is there a way to initiate a poll but not allow anyone to comment beneath it?  That might be ideal.  I guess I've never initiated a poll before (at least not that I can recall).  Maybe that is all that's needed.... a way to move this stuff to a forum that can be ignored by those who don't care.  Same thing as Hot Spot subforum on brews-bros.  If the "Unread" button in the corner of the page could be customized to purposely ignore certain subforums, then all might be well with the universe.

Poll or no poll, the decision still rests with me and the AHA.  At this point, the feeling is that there will be no new forum section.  Do we then make one for batch sparging, BIAB, every different technique?  What really needs to happen is self policing.  And your Brew Bros. example is pretty poor becasue that subforum is imploding.  There is no way to customize the Unread button.  C'mon, poeple, rather than all these unrealistic solutions, how about the easy one?  Don't be a dick!

[Phil_M]

Don't be a dick!

This is what we need more than more forums, mods, departures, or bans.

Also, if someone else is being a dick, that doesn't mean you get a free pass to be a dick too.

[pete b]

We should strive to be a dickless forum.

[HoosierBrew]

Don't be a dick!

This is what we need more than more forums, mods, departures, or bans.

Also, if someone else is being a dick, that doesn't mean you get a free pass to be a dick too.

^^^^^ Luckily since there is no court order that everyone post a response to every post, this just might work. 


Also, Pete, well done. And vaguely disturbing.

[homebrewdad7]

Wheaton's Law, which should be the number one rule for internet forums... and is a damn good one to follow in life in general.