[denny]

Not so much the BJCP, moreso the beer community as a whole.

I still think you're going too broad!  Should be "some uneducated people in the beer community".

[The Beerery]

I swear the more I research this topic, the more I dislike the BJCP and the typical American craft beer snob.

In my ongoing efforts to brew British styles more authentically, I've been working on trying to figure out more on diacetyl being appropriate. So, I went to shutupaboutbarclayperkins.com and ran a search:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/search?q=diacetyl

Most of the hits are on lagers, that's fine. Usually on how to reduce diacetyl. OK, that's what I'd expect for a lager...

Then I start seeing that Ron mentions several German lagers having diacetyl, and notes that this seems to be a good thing. Fine, but try getting that point across to some...diacetyl isn't evil, and I don't think it deserves the "allergic" response many have towards it.

I guess this is a rant. But I feel better now, so there's that. I'll stop buy and grab a pack of Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale on the way home tonight and enjoy my diacetyl in peace.

Why are you upset with the BJCP rather than the individual judges?

Not so much the BJCP, moreso the beer community as a whole.

 

[pete b]

I think its mostly people who like to show others that they know something and have discriminating palates.

[Phil_M]

I think its mostly people who like to show others that they know something and have discriminating palates.

This perhaps sums it up the best. "Just smart enough to be dangerous" like. There's enough out there to make diacetyl seem evil all the time, and if you don't do any follow up research it would be easy to write it off as a flaw.

[homebrewdad7]

My answer is to readily admit that I probably have a crap palate, that I'm surely average at best.  I'll say "tropical fruit" when someone else says "heavy mango, hints of papaya and passionfruit".  I'll say "dark fruit/plum" when someone else will say "raisin tones, with strong stone fruit and a bit of star anise".

But I digress.

I would agree that diacetyl should not be considered a flaw in and of itself, assuming you are drinking a style where its appropriate - e.g. dark British beers.  However, the tasting threshold seems to really vary for this one; what is mild to some is overpowering to others, and since it can so quickly reach overpowering might have something to do with the general view of it as a flaw. 

Meh, brew and drink what you like.

[chumley]

I LOVE a little diacetyl in my beers, which is why I am a huge fan of Ringwood yeast.     Not only bo pils, but dark ales.  A Russian Imperial Stout with a little diacetyl is a good thing.

I have struggled for years to get more diacetyl in my brews and have generally failed miserably.  Under pitching, fermenting too cold, you name it.

In my opinion, a 1.035ish OG mild is much better with a little diaceytl, as I find the mouthfeel is fuller and less thin. 

[Phil_M]

I LOVE a little diacetyl in my beers, which is why I am a huge fan of Ringwood yeast.     Not only bo pils, but dark ales.  A Russian Imperial Stout with a little diacetyl is a good thing.

I have struggled for years to get more diacetyl in my brews and have generally failed miserably.  Under pitching, fermenting too cold, you name it.

In my opinion, a 1.035ish OG mild is much better with a little diaceytl, as I find the mouthfeel is fuller and less thin.

Have you tried open fermentations, and removing the barm (krausen) a few times to encourage the yeast to multiply more? I have seen some thing that suggest this can increase diacetyl production.

And I completely agree with beers in the 1.030's being better for a little diacetyl. I'd like to try such an example on cask sometime.

[udubdawg]

I think its mostly people who like to show others that they know something and have discriminating palates.

This perhaps sums it up the best. "Just smart enough to be dangerous" like. There's enough out there to make diacetyl seem evil all the time, and if you don't do any follow up research it would be easy to write it off as a flaw.

something I used to do and need to get back to is visiting brew clubs on my travels.  Places no one knows me.  I bring some of my best beer and introduce myself as "my wife got me a Mr Beer kit; thought I'd give this hobby a try.  This is my attempt at IPA (or pilsner or saison or whatever)" - and I watch them attempt to find all the "usual noob flaws" - the local know-it-all ass***** tend to identify themselves quickly.  I like to stamp that crap out.

cheers--
--Michael

[dmtaylor]

I think its mostly people who like to show others that they know something and have discriminating palates.

This perhaps sums it up the best. "Just smart enough to be dangerous" like. There's enough out there to make diacetyl seem evil all the time, and if you don't do any follow up research it would be easy to write it off as a flaw.

Yup.  There's an awful lot of this out there in the BJCP and "the community as a whole".  Majorities, even.

something I used to do and need to get back to is visiting brew clubs on my travels.  Places no one knows me.  I bring some of my best beer and introduce myself as "my wife got me a Mr Beer kit; thought I'd give this hobby a try.  This is my attempt at IPA (or pilsner or saison or whatever)" - and I watch them attempt to find all the "usual noob flaws" - the local know-it-all ass***** tend to identify themselves quickly.  I like to stamp that crap out.

Excellent idea!

[brewinhard]

I think its mostly people who like to show others that they know something and have discriminating palates.

This perhaps sums it up the best. "Just smart enough to be dangerous" like. There's enough out there to make diacetyl seem evil all the time, and if you don't do any follow up research it would be easy to write it off as a flaw.

something I used to do and need to get back to is visiting brew clubs on my travels.  Places no one knows me.  I bring some of my best beer and introduce myself as "my wife got me a Mr Beer kit; thought I'd give this hobby a try.  This is my attempt at IPA (or pilsner or saison or whatever)" - and I watch them attempt to find all the "usual noob flaws" - the local know-it-all ass***** tend to identify themselves quickly.  I like to stamp that crap out.

cheers--
--Michael

Ha!  I love that approach.

[santoch]

I actually remember that too, Jim.

I'm in agreement with what's been said.  Everyone perceives the same amounts of these flavors/aromas to different intensities.  Fault Finding should be avoided.

I know which off flavors I am extra sensitive to  (esp phenolics, acetaldehyde, and to a lesser degree, diacetyl), and which I'm not sensitive to compared to most (oxidation -  it needs to be almost like a cardboard box before I start to pick up oxidation).  When I find something I'm sensitive to, I try to dial back my reaction/deduction, to the point of omitting faint flaws I can detect but the other judges can't.

I'm not opposed to diacetyl where it fits and I think more importantly, complements as opposed to detracts from the overall flavor balance of the beer.  A faint whiff of diacetyl in a lager, while out of place, doesn't immediately push it into the 20's or teens for me.  We should all keep in mind the overall presentation, not go flaw hunting. 

[klickitat jim]

I actually remember that too, Jim.

Holy cow, that was about 4 years ago and I was a total nobody. As opposed to the 'who keeps letting that guy in' notoriety I have achieved now

[bayareabrewer]

I think its mostly people who like to show others that they know something and have discriminating palates.

This perhaps sums it up the best. "Just smart enough to be dangerous" like. There's enough out there to make diacetyl seem evil all the time, and if you don't do any follow up research it would be easy to write it off as a flaw.

something I used to do and need to get back to is visiting brew clubs on my travels.  Places no one knows me.  I bring some of my best beer and introduce myself as "my wife got me a Mr Beer kit; thought I'd give this hobby a try.  This is my attempt at IPA (or pilsner or saison or whatever)" - and I watch them attempt to find all the "usual noob flaws" - the local know-it-all ass***** tend to identify themselves quickly.  I like to stamp that crap out.

cheers--
--Michael

haha, that's genius.