Author Topic: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock  (Read 1306 times)

Offline cameramanaaron

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1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« on: February 02, 2017, 06:53:18 PM »
My first run at a recipe is below.
Comments/suggestions would be much appreciated!

5.5 gallon batch

10 lbs vienna malt
4 lbs Dingemans Munich malt
1 lb CaraAroma

1 oz Spalt
1 oz Hallertauer

W-34 lager yeast

Offline blatz

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 07:03:46 PM »
bock is one that I have not mastered yet, despite several tries over the past decade or so.  that said, are you sure you want the overweight to Vienna?  personally, I like predominantly munich malt flavor in my bocks
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 07:11:22 PM »
bock is one that I have not mastered yet, despite several tries over the past decade or so.  that said, are you sure you want the overweight to Vienna?  personally, I like predominantly munich malt flavor in my bocks


Yeah. A blend of light and dark Munichs and 10% pils is what I use. 1.068 OG, ~18 SRM. Maybe 22-23 IBU all at 60 mins.
Jon H.

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2017, 07:12:17 PM »
I prefer my bock to be a blend of German Munich and Pils with maybe a little dark Munich thrown in. Maybe 60-80% Munich with the rest being Pils. The pils lightens the body so that you don't get that Grape Soda Flavor. To adjust the color you might add in a lille carafa special

That said, what you have may work just fine depending on what you are going for.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2017, 07:33:23 PM »
I prefer my bock to be a blend of German Munich and Pils with maybe a little dark Munich thrown in. Maybe 60-80% Munich with the rest being Pils. The pils lightens the body so that you don't get that Grape Soda Flavor. To adjust the color you might add in a lille carafa special

That said, what you have may work just fine depending on what you are going for.

Interesting you mention grape, do you see this flavor in commercial versions? Or yours? or both? You see it from Munich malts?

I know what the grape usually comes from(commercially) so curious to hear your take on it.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2017, 07:45:02 PM »
To kill 2 birds with one stone ( wink wink Blatz). My last Dbock was the best Dbock I have ever had.

43% pils
30% light munich
18% dark munich
3% CMI
4% Carabohemian
2% carared

19ibu at 60 min
4 ibu at 30 min
23ibu total all hallertau mittlefruh

og 1.068 Fg 1.012

I targeted 18srm so you may need to play with some sinamar depending on brewing methods( I had to add about 2oz)

The beer:



Offline cameramanaaron

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2017, 07:53:06 PM »
Thanks everyone for the good suggestions and discussion.

I read somewhere about vienna malt being good as a main base malt in a doppelbock, and I thought it could be interesting with a more delicate flavor.

BTW, the photo is beautiful, Beerery!

Any suggestions on lagering?  Time/temp schedules especially - that's where I'm really stepping into new territory.

Offline blatz

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2017, 07:55:26 PM »
thanks B!
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2017, 08:18:16 PM »
Awesome looking beer. The grist is a departure from mine, and no doubt delicious <notes being taken....>.
Jon H.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2017, 08:22:08 PM »
Thanks everyone for the good suggestions and discussion.

I read somewhere about vienna malt being good as a main base malt in a doppelbock, and I thought it could be interesting with a more delicate flavor.

BTW, the photo is beautiful, Beerery!

Any suggestions on lagering?  Time/temp schedules especially - that's where I'm really stepping into new territory.

In Germany, and according to the German recipe "rules", Vienna is only used in festival beers (Festbier and Oktoberfest). So while you can use anything, its certainly not traditional.

I ferment at 45F until 4 points away from final gravity, where I transfer to a keg. Once in the keg and fermentation is complete and the beer is carbonated( naturally) I lager at 30f for 1 week for every degree plato. In this case this was about..16.5 weeks.

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2017, 08:24:47 PM »
What's W34 lager yeast?  Haven't heard of it before.
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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2017, 08:40:54 PM »
I prefer my bock to be a blend of German Munich and Pils with maybe a little dark Munich thrown in. Maybe 60-80% Munich with the rest being Pils. The pils lightens the body so that you don't get that Grape Soda Flavor. To adjust the color you might add in a lille carafa special

That said, what you have may work just fine depending on what you are going for.

Interesting you mention grape, do you see this flavor in commercial versions? Or yours? or both? You see it from Munich malts?

I know what the grape usually comes from(commercially) so curious to hear your take on it.

If you are talking about methyl anthranilate I don't think this is the same, but I may be wrong. Yes, I have tasted it in imported dark German lagers, though much stronger in American versions (and homebrewed). But not in any pale beers ever, irregardless of how they were brewed or what ingredients used.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2017, 08:43:19 PM »
What's W34 lager yeast?  Haven't heard of it before.

I'm guessing a shorthand of 34/70.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2017, 08:56:56 PM »
I prefer my bock to be a blend of German Munich and Pils with maybe a little dark Munich thrown in. Maybe 60-80% Munich with the rest being Pils. The pils lightens the body so that you don't get that Grape Soda Flavor. To adjust the color you might add in a lille carafa special

That said, what you have may work just fine depending on what you are going for.

Interesting you mention grape, do you see this flavor in commercial versions? Or yours? or both? You see it from Munich malts?

I know what the grape usually comes from(commercially) so curious to hear your take on it.

If you are talking about methyl anthranilate I don't think this is the same, but I may be wrong. Yes, I have tasted it in imported dark German lagers, though much stronger in American versions (and homebrewed). But not in any pale beers ever, irregardless of how they were brewed or what ingredients used.

I taste grape in quite a bit of international beers, interestingly sauergut is a major factor in the grape flavor. When tasted separately it(SG) tastes like really acidic orange juice, but once added to wort grape flavors come out( pre yeast even). Sauergut is really interesting. Some beers like Paulaner pils have a very distinct SG grape note coming most likely from a knock out addition, to help with hotbreak formation and lag. But you have beers like Ayinger that only do a mash addition and the flavor carries over into the finished beer as a nuance. Acid malt(which is basically sprayed with SG) can bring these flavors as well.
I personally don't pick up grape from munich alone. To me (depending on the color), I get pretzel, outside of hard pretzel, slight cherry, and maybe some dough, also I get a weird( albeit very small) sour twang, especially when used in pale grists.

So thats why I was curious.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: 1st Lager - Dunkels Bock
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2017, 08:59:02 PM »
Awesome looking beer. The grist is a departure from mine, and no doubt delicious <notes being taken....>.


As I noted to in another thread, I like to add my "aged" flavors in the form of malt and not actual oxidation.