[riceral]

To kill 2 birds with one stone ( wink wink Blatz). My last Dbock was the best Dbock I have ever had.

43% pils
30% light munich
18% dark munich
3% CMI
4% Carabohemian
2% carared

19ibu at 60 min
4 ibu at 30 min
23ibu total all hallertau mittlefruh

og 1.068 Fg 1.012

I targeted 18srm so you may need to play with some sinamar depending on brewing methods( I had to add about 2oz)

The beer:

Quick question-----

What is CMI? Caramunich 1?

[The Beerery]

To kill 2 birds with one stone ( wink wink Blatz). My last Dbock was the best Dbock I have ever had.

43% pils
30% light munich
18% dark munich
3% CMI
4% Carabohemian
2% carared

19ibu at 60 min
4 ibu at 30 min
23ibu total all hallertau mittlefruh

og 1.068 Fg 1.012

I targeted 18srm so you may need to play with some sinamar depending on brewing methods( I had to add about 2oz)

The beer:

Quick question-----

What is CMI? Caramunich 1?

Yup correct.


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[69franx]

Bryan, 2206 for this as well? I know you said it's your house strain

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[69franx]

Another quick question, are these recipe thoughts from all for doppelbock or dunkel Bock?

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[hopfenundmalz]

I prefer my bock to be a blend of German Munich and Pils with maybe a little dark Munich thrown in. Maybe 60-80% Munich with the rest being Pils. The pils lightens the body so that you don't get that Grape Soda Flavor. To adjust the color you might add in a lille carafa special

That said, what you have may work just fine depending on what you are going for.

Interesting you mention grape, do you see this flavor in commercial versions? Or yours? or both? You see it from Munich malts?

I know what the grape usually comes from(commercially) so curious to hear your take on it.

If you are talking about methyl anthranilate I don't think this is the same, but I may be wrong. Yes, I have tasted it in imported dark German lagers, though much stronger in American versions (and homebrewed). But not in any pale beers ever, irregardless of how they were brewed or what ingredients used.

I taste grape in quite a bit of international beers, interestingly sauergut is a major factor in the grape flavor. When tasted separately it(SG) tastes like really acidic orange juice, but once added to wort grape flavors come out( pre yeast even). Sauergut is really interesting. Some beers like Paulaner pils have a very distinct SG grape note coming most likely from a knock out addition, to help with hotbreak formation and lag. But you have beers like Ayinger that only do a mash addition and the flavor carries over into the finished beer as a nuance. Acid malt(which is basically sprayed with SG) can bring these flavors as well.
I personally don't pick up grape from munich alone. To me (depending on the color), I get pretzel, outside of hard pretzel, slight cherry, and maybe some dough, also I get a weird( albeit very small) sour twang, especially when used in pale grists.

So thats why I was curious.

If you do a search one here there was a thread where Mark (S. cerevisiae) posted that it is a yeast ester, and that its precursor is high in German malt strains. I know guys who have made Bocks that had a strong Welches Grape Juice flavor, I am certain they don't use Sauergut. The Sauergut may enhance the production or perception.

Edit looking at your recipe, I like the CaraBohemian in there. It gives a really nice dark bready flavor to the tmavý ležák I have made a couple of times.

[The Beerery]

Oh yea. I am sure I am one of VERY few brewers using real sauergut here in the states. I was speaking purely of commercial. 

Perhaps it's the yeast I use ( 2206) that doesn't exhibit the grape as I have never tasted it before in any of my beers.
Cheers.


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[reverseapachemaster]

Oh yea. I am sure I am one of VERY few brewers using real sauergut here in the states. I was speaking purely of commercial. 

Perhaps it's the yeast I use ( 2206) that doesn't exhibit the grape as I have never tasted it before in any of my beers.
Cheers.

Ethyl heptanoate is responsible for that flavor. It is a metabolized product of precursors in malted barley.

It is unlikely that dilution of your sauergut by addition to wort or beer transforms the normal flavors of lactic acid (and various other compounds) into ethyl heptanoate or any other grape-flavored organic compound.

It is far more likely that the sauergut fermentation creates conditions that results in a greater degree of ethyl heptanoate in the beer.