[Lazy Ant Brewing]

Some are about $1 more for 120 count.  Do they work and are they worth the additional cost?

Opinions please and thanks in advance for your comments.

[Stevie]

This was covered recently, so you might be able to find a thread with a search. I think there was even a quote from a manufacturing rep.

I use them when I do bottle. A penny per cap isn't a big deal.

[brewinhard]

This was covered recently, so you might be able to find a thread with a search. I think there was even a quote from a manufacturing rep.

I use them when I do bottle. A penny per cap isn't a big deal.

^^^^^^This. And even if they don't work as well as they say they do, its only an extra buck.

[The Beerery]

At the rate of cap ingress of oxygen at 1ppb per day any help is worth it!


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[brewinhard]

At the rate of cap ingress of oxygen at 1ppb per day any help is worth it!


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I despise bottling for that very reason. Keg always unless bottling for a comp.

[The Beerery]

I was running the numbers last night I found it interesting so I will share.  I will say I used generalizations and some guesses but I bet it's pretty close.

In a professional brewery setting a professional canning system you are looking at 20-30ish ppb ingress on filling, due to not being able to pull a vacuum.  But you don't have cap ingress.  The problem is micro-oxidation can start a chain reaction, and you still have the non-oxidative reactions( fats and lipids, yeast breakdown, lox, etc) that can happen in the complete absence of oxygen, but basically can super oxidate when oxygen is present. 

Now on a solid bottling line hey are doing at least a single vac/purge and if they are decent a double.  They can get do down to like 10ppb with the double cycle, but you have cap ingress(1ppb/day).  So assuming those things bottled beer will be better for the ~first 2 weeks then it will start losing to the can.

So the limit of packaged DO is .15 before you start to see accelerated staling( again we are not talking cardboard and sherry, we are talking loss of brewery fresh flavors, hop aroma, flavor,etc) SO what does this mean.

Well cans will basically hold the DO they are packaged with, whatever that level may be.

But let's take a bottle. Let's assume the bottling plant is rock solid and nets a 10ppb fill. Let's also say that bottle will be kept cold and never brought to room temp in its life( yea right!). You would have roughly 140 days before you see an freshness issue( born on dates anyone???). 

Now let's take us. As we have all saw bottle priming beers have netted us better results as the yeast can consume the o2 at pick up.   It once that yeast goes dormant you are dealing with cap ingress( which is why may breweries bottle condition).

However keggers are basically left with 3 options cpbf and beergun and other. Cpbf is going to be your best option, as you can at least purge and fill under pressure, due to gas laws co2 purging is tremendously inefficient. Once that .15 is passed however much you went over it, is how fast things will happen. We have all see hop aromas fade, and beers changing flavor.  This is also why growlers go south so fast as well. 

Anyways. It's another fascinating aspect of brewing. 




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[dilluh98]

Assuming the yeast in bottle-spunded beer takes up the O2 upon packaging, you're left with ~150 days of freshness from cap ingress (without considering what "oxygen scavenging" caps may or may not do). That's about 5 months. I can live with that.

[The Beerery]

Assuming the yeast in bottle-spunded beer takes up the O2 upon packaging, you're left with ~150 days of freshness from cap ingress (without considering what "oxygen scavenging" caps may or may not do). That's about 5 months. I can live with that.

Of course what I listed was perfect case scenario. Warming the bottles to carb, amount of suspended trub/fats/lipids/etc, yeast break down, and storage all play a part in this as well. But bottle conditioned beer *should* have better stability than the rest. 

The most stable beer would be a filtered beer (.8u absolute or below), filled into a can.


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