Author Topic: Trub in starter  (Read 2519 times)

The Beerery

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Re: Trub in starter
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2017, 07:04:32 PM »
I have always tried to reduce the amount of ANY break going into my fermenters. Mainly for repitching purposes and keeping the wort as clear as possible.

But now after learning of potential issues with residual lipids in trub possibly leading to early oxidation effects I will be more likely than ever to minimize any break getting into the fermenting wort.


Yeah, my experience, too. Gonna minimize it now for even more and  better reasons.

Yet several tests show clearer, better tasting beer with it left in.

Some food for thought...

If your beers taste better from leaving trub in, that means you are not getting enough FAN and zinc in your wort. Choosing a different mashing regimen along with using sauermalt or sauergut to acidity your wort will help this as sauergut(what sauermalt is cured with) is very high in zinc. A step mashing regimen will help with FAN and a lower mashing pH. 

But you( the proverbial you,us, we) are taking the good with the bad the bad being the known and scientifically proven Fats and lipids, to get the yeast health. 

I'm am not telling anyone how to brew here, just telling you the how's and why.  It's fascinating really.




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Can you explain how the Sauergut becomes high in zinc? I don't follow as wort I'd deficient in zinc. Where does it come from?

I did look at some pictures recently. A small family brewer in Niederbayern had picked up a big old pitch of yeast slurry from his buddy in the next town that brews more frequently. It dawned on me that it was in a galvanized tub, which would give some zinc to the yeast. Just a side story.

For sure Jeff,

Here is what Kunze has to say...




If you notice the bullet point about spent grains and biological acid. What I do it keep a muslin bag of grains in my SG tank, so they can zincify( is that a word?!?!) the whole SG batch(l learned this trick from a very  nice brewmaster over there). When I use 20l of SG I replace the grains. I have kept my SG culture going for about a year now. I only add pale worts to it, but its a lovely orange color.

With the SG and the FAN, I get rocket fermentations(4-6hr lag time) at 45F, 5 days to spund 7 to final gravity.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 07:06:48 PM by The Beerery »

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Trub in starter
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2017, 07:10:51 PM »
I have always tried to reduce the amount of ANY break going into my fermenters. Mainly for repitching purposes and keeping the wort as clear as possible.

But now after learning of potential issues with residual lipids in trub possibly leading to early oxidation effects I will be more likely than ever to minimize any break getting into the fermenting wort.


Yeah, my experience, too. Gonna minimize it now for even more and  better reasons.

Yet several tests show clearer, better tasting beer with it left in.

I'm not even sure that this is what the conversation is about. As I see it, it is about trub lipids leading to potential oxidation down the road. Oxidation is not something (at least in most brewing cases) that is going to be an immediate appearance.
So the question is not if my wort gets a lot of trub in it does it taste better, rather which beer stays fresher longer? - the one brewed with more trub or less, leading to better and fresher tasting beer longer?

Just my 2 cents. Which sure as hell have not been adding up to much lately... ;)

Offline denny

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Re: Trub in starter
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2017, 08:11:28 PM »
What tests are these? I'd be interested in reading these.

I doubt you'd be interested.  They're taste tests by homebrewers, not from a book.  Ya know, the practical, real life stuff we really care about!  ;)

Oh Denny. Some things never change.

Like a desire to not be ridiculed?  There has been so much contempt for "citizen science" that it's pretty much killed my desire to post it and have it and me made fun of again.
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Big Monk

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Re: Trub in starter
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2017, 08:17:09 PM »
What tests are these? I'd be interested in reading these.

I doubt you'd be interested.  They're taste tests by homebrewers, not from a book.  Ya know, the practical, real life stuff we really care about!  ;)

Oh Denny. Some things never change.

Like a desire to not be ridiculed?  There has been so much contempt for "citizen science" that it's pretty much killed my desire to post it and have it and me made fun of again.

I was being dead serious. I would be interested in reading them.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Trub in starter
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2017, 09:45:51 PM »
Isn't there zinc in wyeast nutrient?

Edit: yup. Seems like everything I need is in my wyeast nutrient
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 09:50:03 PM by klickitat jim »

The Beerery

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Trub in starter
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2017, 10:00:20 PM »
Isn't there zinc in wyeast nutrient?

Edit: yup. Seems like everything I need is in my wyeast nutrient
Sure. That works too. I prefer to make it myself.  Different strokes and all that.. 


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« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 10:07:05 PM by The Beerery »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Trub in starter
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2017, 10:41:04 PM »
Ok... I feel more better

Offline narcout

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Re: Trub in starter
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2017, 11:36:13 PM »
Isn't there zinc in wyeast nutrient?

Edit: yup. Seems like everything I need is in my wyeast nutrient

1/2 tsp of Wyeast nutriet per 5 gallons of wort yields 0.635 ppm zinc.  This is according to a thread on another forum where a member emailed Wyeast about it. 
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Trub in starter
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2017, 02:59:33 AM »
I have always tried to reduce the amount of ANY break going into my fermenters. Mainly for repitching purposes and keeping the wort as clear as possible.

But now after learning of potential issues with residual lipids in trub possibly leading to early oxidation effects I will be more likely than ever to minimize any break getting into the fermenting wort.


Yeah, my experience, too. Gonna minimize it now for even more and  better reasons.

Yet several tests show clearer, better tasting beer with it left in.

Some food for thought...

If your beers taste better from leaving trub in, that means you are not getting enough FAN and zinc in your wort. Choosing a different mashing regimen along with using sauermalt or sauergut to acidity your wort will help this as sauergut(what sauermalt is cured with) is very high in zinc. A step mashing regimen will help with FAN and a lower mashing pH. 

But you( the proverbial you,us, we) are taking the good with the bad the bad being the known and scientifically proven Fats and lipids, to get the yeast health. 

I'm am not telling anyone how to brew here, just telling you the how's and why.  It's fascinating really.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can you explain how the Sauergut becomes high in zinc? I don't follow as wort I'd deficient in zinc. Where does it come from?

I did look at some pictures recently. A small family brewer in Niederbayern had picked up a big old pitch of yeast slurry from his buddy in the next town that brews more frequently. It dawned on me that it was in a galvanized tub, which would give some zinc to the yeast. Just a side story.

For sure Jeff,

Here is what Kunze has to say...




If you notice the bullet point about spent grains and biological acid. What I do it keep a muslin bag of grains in my SG tank, so they can zincify( is that a word?!?!) the whole SG batch(l learned this trick from a very  nice brewmaster over there). When I use 20l of SG I replace the grains. I have kept my SG culture going for about a year now. I only add pale worts to it, but its a lovely orange color.

With the SG and the FAN, I get rocket fermentations(4-6hr lag time) at 45F, 5 days to spund 7 to final gravity.
OK, got it.
Jeff Rankert
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