Author Topic: malt rye & extract  (Read 2030 times)

Offline melferburque

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malt rye & extract
« on: February 09, 2017, 10:48:50 PM »
I've been out of brewing for several years and no longer have the means of all-grain options like I used to. I'm working to recreate a recipe I had used previously but with DME (couldn't find LME locally within my budget). my concern is steeping only rye (1#) and crystal 40 (1/2#) won't be as effective without the base malt of a mash. should I be concerned?

I had already planned to steep a few degrees higher than normal (156 F) to bring the FG up, which is currently calculating at 1.009 on my software, with a 1.064 OG for 7% ABV.

the recipe I'm looking at is for a 3 gallon batch:

3# light DME
1# dark DME
1# malted rye
1/2# crystal 40

am I going to regret this?
weirdo in a weird land.

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2017, 11:06:39 PM »
I doubt you'll regret it.  I also don't think you need to worry about a low final gravity.  The dark DME should have plenty of unfermentables.

If I were you, I'd throw at least one pound of two row in with the grains and steep them for a minimum of 30 minutes, probably longer.  But I think rye also has enough diastatic power to convert on it's own so you should be fine.

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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 03:09:04 AM »
Rye malt IS a base malt.  It will turn out great.
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2017, 05:30:50 PM »
I doubt you'll regret it.  I also don't think you need to worry about a low final gravity.  The dark DME should have plenty of unfermentables.

If I were you, I'd throw at least one pound of two row in with the grains and steep them for a minimum of 30 minutes, probably longer.  But I think rye also has enough diastatic power to convert on it's own so you should be fine.

Briess rye malt does.  Some of the continental rye malts might not.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2017, 05:55:50 PM »
Briess rye malt does.  Some of the continental rye malts might not.

You definitely know more about rye than I.

I suppose another option could be rye malt extract.  Is NB still making that?  I suppose that's not necessarily available locally for the OP, but an option nonetheless.
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Offline melferburque

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2017, 05:57:56 PM »
good to know the malt rye will convert on its own. I am concerned that the target FG according to my software is low. mashing at a higher temp should make for less fermentable sugars to compensate for that, correct?

I did see rye LME but it was really expensive. seems easier to just partial mash.
weirdo in a weird land.

Offline denny

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2017, 06:01:35 PM »
good to know the malt rye will convert on its own. I am concerned that the target FG according to my software is low. mashing at a higher temp should make for less fermentable sugars to compensate for that, correct?

I did see rye LME but it was really expensive. seems easier to just partial mash.

Software has no idea what your FG will be...it's just guessing.

The only rye extract I'm aware of comes from Briess.  Besides rye, it also contains pale and crystal malt.  Coincidentally, in just the right proportions for my Rye IPA recipe!
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Offline melferburque

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2017, 06:50:51 PM »
sooo.. I transferred to secondary, took a gravity reading, and I'm at 1.019. I thought the yeast was awfully quiet. should I repitch? I used US-05. it was fermenting around 64 degrees, I couldn't get it much higher.

OG was 1.049, so I was right on to start with.
weirdo in a weird land.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2017, 07:10:55 PM »
I doubt you'll regret it.  I also don't think you need to worry about a low final gravity.  The dark DME should have plenty of unfermentables.

If I were you, I'd throw at least one pound of two row in with the grains and steep them for a minimum of 30 minutes, probably longer.  But I think rye also has enough diastatic power to convert on it's own so you should be fine.

Briess rye malt does.  Some of the continental rye malts might not.
Weyermann malted rye is >200 WK which is about 60 lintner. It will convert. Briefs is 105 Lintner.
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Offline denny

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 05:13:40 PM »
sooo.. I transferred to secondary, took a gravity reading, and I'm at 1.019. I thought the yeast was awfully quiet. should I repitch? I used US-05. it was fermenting around 64 degrees, I couldn't get it much higher.

OG was 1.049, so I was right on to start with.

It's likely there's nothing left to ferment. 
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline melferburque

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 05:41:59 PM »

It's likely there's nothing left to ferment.

hooray for overly sweet near-beer, I guess. does seem a little odd given the four pounds of DME tho.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 05:47:53 PM by melferburque »
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2017, 07:41:18 PM »
FG 1.019 does seem quite high IMO, if your OG was truly 1.049 and with US-05.  This yeast usually eats much more sugar than most other yeasts, to the tune of ~80% attenuation or more on average.

How are you measuring final gravity?  Using a refractometer, or a hydrometer?  This could be an issue.

The brand of DME might have hurt the final gravity a bit, but I wouldn't think THIS much.  What brands did you use, out of curiosity?

And did you in fact mash or steep at 156 F?  This too could have hurt a bit, but not THIS much either.

But if you have a combination of several of these factors coming into play all at the same time, your result is possible.

I wouldn't repitch.  I don't believe the yeast is the problem.  At least, not yet.
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2017, 07:52:32 PM »
FG 1.019 does seem quite high IMO, if your OG was truly 1.049 and with US-05.  This yeast usually eats much more sugar than most other yeasts, to the tune of ~80% attenuation or more on average.

How are you measuring final gravity?  Using a refractometer, or a hydrometer?  This could be an issue.

The brand of DME might have hurt the final gravity a bit, but I wouldn't think THIS much.  What brands did you use, out of curiosity?

And did you in fact mash or steep at 156 F?  This too could have hurt a bit, but not THIS much either.

But if you have a combination of several of these factors coming into play all at the same time, your result is possible.

I wouldn't repitch.  I don't believe the yeast is the problem.  At least, not yet.

He's got dark DME in there and even the light likely has some unfermentables.  The rye extract is about 15-20% crystal in addition (assuming Briess), PLUS the's another 1/2 lb. of crystal.  That's a metric buttload of unfermentables!  1.019 isn't unreasonable in that situation.
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Offline melferburque

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 07:55:09 PM »
lesson learned. this was my first go with DME, I'd always mashed full grain before with no difficulty.
weirdo in a weird land.

Offline denny

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Re: malt rye & extract
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2017, 08:02:08 PM »
lesson learned. this was my first go with DME, I'd always mashed full grain before with no difficulty.

I've found that it's a good idea when using extract to replace a bit of it with table sugar to increase fermentability.  When I was working with the rye extract to develop an extract version of my Rye IPA recipe I found that if I added 3/4 lb. of sugar I could pretty much duplicate both the flavor and fermentability of the all grain version.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell