[amichuda]

The Reinheitschebot, while portrayed as romantic and "pure", has nothing to do quality. It was about making sure that rye and wheat were used for making bread instead of beer.

You'd be amazed at some of the things that brewers do to get around it. Why is it OK to inject beer with CO2 harvested from fermentation, but not C02 purchased from any supplier?

By the way, those nasty chemicals in mash salts? ALLOWED!

From Narzis,

"3.1.3. The brewing liquor, according to the Beer Law, includes every water to be found in nature. A pretreatment for the elimination of iron, of suspended particles or colloids by precipitation and filtration is allowed as is the addition of calcium sulphate and calcium chloride provided that the water does not have a different composition to natural waters."

[The Beerery]

The Reinheitschebot, while portrayed as romantic and "pure", has nothing to do quality. It was about making sure that rye and wheat were used for making bread instead of beer.

You'd be amazed at some of the things that brewers do to get around it. Why is it OK to inject beer with CO2 harvested from fermentation, but not C02 purchased from any supplier?

By the way, those nasty chemicals in mash salts? ALLOWED!

Spot on.

To answer your question on CO2 you can "force carb" beer, but you need a purer grade. Fermantation co2 is the purest grade co2 you can get and its free..

Indeed you can add water salts.

[tommymorris]

As an alternative to posts that describe use of additives such as chemicals, acids, and other adjuncts, some of which aren't sold in the US, I thought those of us that prefer a more simple approach to pure, all grain brewing could share a thread. I've researched using the latest techniques and exotic chemicals but simple ingredients and methods appeal to me more.

Even though I considered jumping on the bandwagon, I decided to go the other direction. In my Brew Years Resolution post, I resolved myself to more simple grain bills this year. Likewise, I will not be adding anything outside traditional, fresh, natural ingredients (grain, hops, water and yeast) as well as finings to brew my beers. I may employ some of the techniques but the chemicals are not going in my beers.

Background:

1. In performing my research, I contacted a couple of the local breweries. I received this note from one; "I have confirmed with the brewers that we don’t do any additives at all. So yes, we just filter it [water] 3 times and then add nothing back. ...we’ve had no problems so we don’t feel there’s any need."  IOW, they brew everything from Kölsch to Stout without adding minerals, chemicals, or acids. Another local brewer says he only treats for pH.

2. The Reinheitsgebot (literally "purity order"), sometimes called the "German Beer Purity Law" in English, is the collective name for a series of regulations limiting the ingredients in beer in Germany and the states of the former Holy Roman Empire. The best-known version of the law was adopted in Bavaria in 1516, but similar regulations predate the Bavarian order, and modern regulations also significantly differ from the 1516 Bavarian version.

According to the 1516 Bavarian law, the only ingredients that could be used in the production of beer were water, barley and hops.  In the mid-1500s Bavaria began to allow ingredients such as coriander, bay leaf, and wheat. Yeast was also added to modern versions of the law after the discovery of its role in fermentation.

The revised Vorläufiges Biergesetz (Provisional Beer Law) of 1993, which replaced the earlier regulations, is a slightly expanded version of the Reinheitsgebot, stipulating that only water, malted barley, hops and yeast be used for any bottom-fermented beer brewed in Germany. In addition, the law allows the use of powdered or ground hops and hops extracts, as well as stabilization and fining agents such as PVPP (aka 'Polyclar'). Top-fermented beer is subject to the same rules with the addition that a wider variety of malts can be used as well as pure sugars for flavor and coloring.

Because of strong German consumer preferences, labeling beer as being compliant with Reinheitsgebot is believed to be a valuable marketing tool in Germany. German brewers have used the law to market German beer internationally, including a failed attempt to have the law added to the UNESCO list of intangible cultural heritages. Some breweries in areas outside of Germany, such as Gordon Biersch in California, Red Oak Brewery in Whitsett, NC, Olde Mecklenburg Brewery in Charlotte, N.C., Namibia Breweries, and Penn Brewery in Pittsburgh, PA, also claim to be compliant to the Reinheitsgebot as part of their marketing.

Having lived in Europe six years, I can attest to their appetite for natural purity and freshness. It's hard for me to believe Germans would knowingly drink beer brewed with chemicals. So, I contacted a German buddy: Andreas Schmatz. He turned me on to Schmucker Bier and the Woinemer Hausbrauerie when I lived there. I explained what was happening and he couldn't even get past 'Why'. "We don't need beer to be preserved. We need to drink it fresh." was his quote in a very thick Odenwälder accent. It was good to talk with him again.  It's been too long.

3. CAMRA defines 'Real Ale' as a beer brewed from traditional ingredients (malted barley, hops, water and yeast). They go on to say it is matured by secondary fermentation in the container from which it is dispensed, and served without the use of extraneous carbon dioxide.

Real ale is also known as ‘cask-conditioned beer', ‘real cask ale', real beer' and ‘naturally conditioned beer.' The term ‘real ale' and the above definition were coined by CAMRA in the early 1970s.

Brewers of Real Ale use ingredients which are fresh and natural, resulting in a drink which tastes natural and full of flavor. It is literally living as it continues to ferment in the cask in your local pub, developing its flavor as it matures ready to be poured into your glass.

I admit that it will be more challenging to meet the Real Ale 'dispense and served without the use of extraneous carbon dioxide' rule so I may have to bend a little there until I can come to a solution. Though it appeals to me, we'll see.

Cheers!


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The easy answer to avoiding force carbonation and serving with CO2 for real ale is to bottle you beer and naturally carbonate.

[JT]

I'm with you - less is more.  I can purchase RO water, use filtered tap water or a combination of the two.  I do allow for basic minerals, namely gypsum & calcium chloride to be added when needed.  I stopped using fermcap S a long time ago.  If I want a fining I choose Irish Moss over a whirlfloc tablet. 
Lately I've been using acid malt over lactic acid, but I'm really not opposed to lactic acid either.
It just makes me feel better about my beer to not go all Breaking Bad on it.  Not judging those that do... but as I've said before INFORM people what they're drinking as a courtesy!
Prost!

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[Philbrew]

The Reinheitschebot, while portrayed as romantic and "pure", has nothing to do quality. It was about making sure that rye and wheat were used for making bread instead of beer.

Actually the rye and wheat thing was just an excuse (more bread for the common folk).  The real reason was that the Catholic Church through their monasteries and abbeys had a monopoly on gruit.  The German nobility wanted to cut into that by mandating hops instead of gruit for bittering.

[amichuda]

The Reinheitschebot, while portrayed as romantic and "pure", has nothing to do quality. It was about making sure that rye and wheat were used for making bread instead of beer.

Actually the rye and wheat thing was just an excuse (more bread for the common folk).  The real reason was that the Catholic Church through their monasteries and abbeys had a monopoly on gruit.  The German nobility wanted to cut into that by mandating hops instead of gruit for bittering.

And India Pale Ales were made stronger and hopped excessively to withstand the long journey around Africa to India. 

[dzlater]

Back to the OP and original topic...

I myself have puristic tendencies.  I believe many homebrewers, myself included, have had a tendency to meddle too much, without very well determining whether our additional efforts are really adding anything positive to the bottom line, which, of course, is beer flavor and quality.

Also take into consideration that many brewers make fantastic beer the easy way and don't fart around.  They just come up with a reasonable recipe, brew it, and enjoy it.

So I am with you.  I'm interested in getting back to basics, and not sweating details too much.  Crush well, mash well, mash in the right pH range, clean fermenters well, ferment well with healthy yeast.  That....... that is about it.

Cheers all.

I am starting to wonder if I am the only homebrewer left who brews this way.
Just filter my tap water for chlorine and brew.
I don't know if my beer is considered "fantastic" but they mostly turn out well.
I occasionly consider getting my water tested but never have.
Mash pH is something I do think about but without spending money on meter I can't really do anything about it.
The brewer at a local brewery is adament that "if your water tastes good to drink don't mess with it"

[klickitat jim]

Back to the OP and original topic...

I myself have puristic tendencies.  I believe many homebrewers, myself included, have had a tendency to meddle too much, without very well determining whether our additional efforts are really adding anything positive to the bottom line, which, of course, is beer flavor and quality.

Also take into consideration that many brewers make fantastic beer the easy way and don't fart around.  They just come up with a reasonable recipe, brew it, and enjoy it.

So I am with you.  I'm interested in getting back to basics, and not sweating details too much.  Crush well, mash well, mash in the right pH range, clean fermenters well, ferment well with healthy yeast.  That....... that is about it.

Cheers all.

I am starting to wonder if I am the only homebrewer left who brews this way.
Just filter my tap water for chlorine and brew.
I don't know if my beer is considered "fantastic" but they mostly turn out well.
I occasionly consider getting my water tested but never have.
Mash pH is something I do think about but without spending money on meter I can't really do anything about it.
The brewer at a local brewery is adament that "if your water tastes good to drink don't mess with it"

I think the little group of us on this forum would be shocked if we knew how many people do just what you do. Some probably are lucky and have great water, others so so, and some probably don't know why their beer sucks. Sounds like you are doing just fine.

[BrewBama]

Back to the OP and original topic...

I myself have puristic tendencies.  I believe many homebrewers, myself included, have had a tendency to meddle too much, without very well determining whether our additional efforts are really adding anything positive to the bottom line, which, of course, is beer flavor and quality.

Also take into consideration that many brewers make fantastic beer the easy way and don't fart around.  They just come up with a reasonable recipe, brew it, and enjoy it.

So I am with you.  I'm interested in getting back to basics, and not sweating details too much.  Crush well, mash well, mash in the right pH range, clean fermenters well, ferment well with healthy yeast.  That....... that is about it.

Cheers all.

I am starting to wonder if I am the only homebrewer left who brews this way.
Just filter my tap water for chlorine and brew.
I don't know if my beer is considered "fantastic" but they mostly turn out well.
I occasionly consider getting my water tested but never have.
Mash pH is something I do think about but without spending money on meter I can't really do anything about it.
The brewer at a local brewery is adament that "if your water tastes good to drink don't mess with it"

+1


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BrewBama]

The Reinheitschebot, while portrayed as romantic and "pure", has nothing to do quality. It was about making sure that rye and wheat were used for making bread instead of beer.

You'd be amazed at some of the things that brewers do to get around it. Why is it OK to inject beer with CO2 harvested from fermentation, but not C02 purchased from any supplier?

By the way, those nasty chemicals in mash salts? ALLOWED!

Spot on.

To answer your question on CO2 you can "force carb" beer, but you need a purer grade. Fermantation co2 is the purest grade co2 you can get and its free..

Indeed you can add water salts.

I've built a spunding valve and plan to try it on my next brew.

It's not the romanticism that attracts me as much as the simplicity.  I'll probably be more in line with Vorläufiges Biergesetz vs Reinheitschebot.

I've attempted to simplify many areas in my life including food prep. This is just an extension to that.

Acids and salts are use in cooking to bring balance and flavor. I may consider naturally occurring minerals as additions as time goes on.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mabrungard]

The brewer at a local brewery is adament that "if your water tastes good to drink don't mess with it"

That is such unfortunate advice. There really isn't anything further from the truth in brewing.

I invite you to read Nov/Dec 2015 issue of Zymurgy where really simple water adjustments are presented. No math or programs, just a few simple doses of one thing or another to help brewers determine if their beer got better (or worse) based on their perceptions from their previous batches and new batches.

The only truism that can be created from that brewer's statement is: If the water tastes bad, you can't brew with it.

Good tasting water is important, but it doesn't guarantee good beer. Even the old timers knew that there were things they had to do to create decent beer. The problem is that our non-apprenticed brewing education doesn't impart the wisdom that was developed through generations of brewing experience. While those rules and procedures that were developed in previous centuries may not make sense to us now, they were found to be necessary through trial and error.

The other thing to remember is that just a few hundred years ago, local was the only beer there was and you made whatever beer you could make based on your local conditions and ingredients. The successful brewers devised the local rules and procedures that produced their best local beer. That means that they brewed a narrow range of styles. If brewers want to brew more than the style of beer that is well-suited for their local water, you do have to perform adjustments to your water. 

[hopfenundmalz]

The brewer at a local brewery is adament that "if your water tastes good to drink don't mess with it"

That is such unfortunate advice. There really isn't anything further from the truth in brewing.

I invite you to read Nov/Dec 2015 issue of Zymurgy where really simple water adjustments are presented. No math or programs, just a few simple doses of one thing or another to help brewers determine if their beer got better (or worse) based on their perceptions from their previous batches and new batches.

The only truism that can be created from that brewer's statement is: If the water tastes bad, you can't brew with it.

Good tasting water is important, but it doesn't guarantee good beer. Even the old timers knew that there were things they had to do to create decent beer. The problem is that our non-apprenticed brewing education doesn't impart the wisdom that was developed through generations of brewing experience. While those rules and procedures that were developed in previous centuries may not make sense to us now, they were found to be necessary through trial and error.

The other thing to remember is that just a few hundred years ago, local was the only beer there was and you made whatever beer you could make based on your local conditions and ingredients. The successful brewers devised the local rules and procedures that produced their best local beer. That means that they brewed a narrow range of styles. If brewers want to brew more than the style of beer that is well-suited for their local water, you do have to perform adjustments to your water.

My water sucks, so I agree.

[HoosierBrew]

The brewer at a local brewery is adament that "if your water tastes good to drink don't mess with it"

That is such unfortunate advice. There really isn't anything further from the truth in brewing.

I invite you to read Nov/Dec 2015 issue of Zymurgy where really simple water adjustments are presented. No math or programs, just a few simple doses of one thing or another to help brewers determine if their beer got better (or worse) based on their perceptions from their previous batches and new batches.

The only truism that can be created from that brewer's statement is: If the water tastes bad, you can't brew with it.

Good tasting water is important, but it doesn't guarantee good beer. Even the old timers knew that there were things they had to do to create decent beer. The problem is that our non-apprenticed brewing education doesn't impart the wisdom that was developed through generations of brewing experience. While those rules and procedures that were developed in previous centuries may not make sense to us now, they were found to be necessary through trial and error.

The other thing to remember is that just a few hundred years ago, local was the only beer there was and you made whatever beer you could make based on your local conditions and ingredients. The successful brewers devised the local rules and procedures that produced their best local beer. That means that they brewed a narrow range of styles. If brewers want to brew more than the style of beer that is well-suited for their local water, you do have to perform adjustments to your water.

My water sucks, so I agree.

Couldn't agree more. My local water doesn't taste bad in and of itself, and is also around 500ppm TDS. Not good for brewing most anything. I used to cut it with RO for some styles but it fluctuates through the year, so I just just build from all RO now.
 

[dmtaylor]

The brewer at a local brewery is adament that "if your water tastes good to drink don't mess with it"

That is such unfortunate advice. There really isn't anything further from the truth in brewing.

I usually agree with you, sir; however, I'm sure there a VERY many things further from the truth.

[Joe Sr.]

I am starting to wonder if I am the only homebrewer left who brews this way.
Just filter my tap water for chlorine and brew.
I don't know if my beer is considered "fantastic" but they mostly turn out well.
I occasionly consider getting my water tested but never have.
Mash pH is something I do think about but without spending money on meter I can't really do anything about it.
The brewer at a local brewery is adament that "if your water tastes good to drink don't mess with it"

I think the little group of us on this forum would be shocked if we knew how many people do just what you do. Some probably are lucky and have great water, others so so, and some probably don't know why their beer sucks. Sounds like you are doing just fine.

I brewed a lot of great beer that way.  But, there are some styles that don't come out how I would like so more needs to be done if I want to perfect those.

This is really one of those topics where the right answer is "it depends."  It depends on what your goals are and what you're willing (or not) to do.

For instance, I know I can make good saisons with 3711 and I had given up on 3724 years ago.  But, I've got a saison with 3724 fermenting right now because I want that flavor profile and I'm willing to battle that yeast.  I've got it in a warm water bath on a temp controller, loose foil instead of airlock, and we'll see how it comes out.  3711 would take me less effort, but my goal is to bend 3724 to my will (actually, it's bending me but whatever).

Also, I struggle with making lower alcohol beers that I enjoy.  There's something missing.  They seem thin.  Maybe it's water chemistry.  I haven't figured it out yet (not enough time for brewing).  I'm lucky in that Chicago water is generally good for brewing, but if you want to perfect certain styles it needs to be tweaked.  I think that perhaps this is more apparent in the lower gravity ales.  Perhaps.