Author Topic: Clear wort ???  (Read 5263 times)

Offline Philbrew

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Clear wort ???
« on: February 16, 2017, 03:14:41 AM »
I do BIAB with a good squeeze or three.  My wort never starts out clear but my beer ends up clear and tastes good.  I see some comments from folks who say they love how clear their wort is going into the boil.  Why is that a good thing?  Can I improve my beer by improving the clarity of my wort?
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2017, 03:48:46 AM »
I have it somewhere and I can update it tomorrow.   But there are many fats and lipids in trub and cloudy lautering.  This can cause early oxidation issues.  On the flip side it also helps yeast health. If you stepmash, use sauermalt, etc you will probably see a benefit from clearing this up because step will release more FAN and sauermalt contains zinc both yeast nutrients. If you are not clear wort may hurt you, but there is alway yeast Nutrients as well.   


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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 03:55:23 AM »
There have been experiments run by some (Brulosophy? I forget) that showed that with all the cloudy trub stuff retained in the fermenter, the beer actually ended up more clear and better tasting than the same wort clarified going into the fermenter.

I don't think it's something to fret too much about.  We should all run our own experiments, but the likelihood of it really mattering much is probably close to nil.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 04:09:29 AM »
If squeezing makes it cloudy, why not mash enough that you don't have to squeeze?

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 12:07:29 PM »
If squeezing makes it cloudy, why not mash enough that you don't have to squeeze?
That would be a no sparge set up and the efficiency takes a pretty significant hit.  Cloudy into the boil kettle or carboy doesn't seem to negatively affect the flavor of 'MY' beer.  However there is less yield, which bothers me.

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Big Monk

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2017, 12:31:43 PM »
If squeezing makes it cloudy, why not mash enough that you don't have to squeeze?
That would be a no sparge set up and the efficiency takes a pretty significant hit.  Cloudy into the boil kettle or carboy doesn't seem to negatively affect the flavor of 'MY' beer.  However there is less yield, which bothers me.

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It depends on gravity and equipment. We (Bryan and I) get high efficiency due to recirculation, 12 °P or less gravity and very little MLT loss. Bottom draining helps. Limiting deadspace helps as well. We both use bags as mash filters but don't dare squeeze them. Bryan is up around 90% mash η and I'm around 84% mash η with no-sparge.

Above 12 °P you'll maybe start seeing a hit due to absorption increasing.

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2017, 01:03:07 PM »
If squeezing makes it cloudy, why not mash enough that you don't have to squeeze?
That would be a no sparge set up and the efficiency takes a pretty significant hit.  Cloudy into the boil kettle or carboy doesn't seem to negatively affect the flavor of 'MY' beer.  However there is less yield, which bothers me.

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It depends on gravity and equipment. We (Bryan and I) get high efficiency due to recirculation, 12 °P or less gravity and very little MLT loss. Bottom draining helps. Limiting deadspace helps as well. We both use bags as mash filters but don't dare squeeze them. Bryan is up around 90% mash η and I'm around 84% mash η with no-sparge.

Above 12 °P you'll maybe start seeing a hit due to absorption increasing.
Recirculation isn't in the OP, he's squeezing.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2017, 01:19:51 PM »
What does squeezing have to do with sparge?

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2017, 01:25:36 PM »
What does squeezing have to do with sparge?
Squeeze vs sparge both "rinse" or extract the fermentable wort from the grist.

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Big Monk

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2017, 01:26:43 PM »
If squeezing makes it cloudy, why not mash enough that you don't have to squeeze?
That would be a no sparge set up and the efficiency takes a pretty significant hit.  Cloudy into the boil kettle or carboy doesn't seem to negatively affect the flavor of 'MY' beer.  However there is less yield, which bothers me.

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It depends on gravity and equipment. We (Bryan and I) get high efficiency due to recirculation, 12 °P or less gravity and very little MLT loss. Bottom draining helps. Limiting deadspace helps as well. We both use bags as mash filters but don't dare squeeze them. Bryan is up around 90% mash η and I'm around 84% mash η with no-sparge.

Above 12 °P you'll maybe start seeing a hit due to absorption increasing.
Recirculation isn't in the OP, he's squeezing.

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He's asking about ways to get clearer wort and if he should do so. Eliminating squeezing is one way. You mentioned that without squeezing you'd be doing a no-sparge (squeezing is a kind of faux sparge I guess, meant to increase the extract of the kettle wort) and taking an efficiency it. I mentioned ways we get great no sparge mash η.

Seems like a logical extension to me.

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2017, 01:33:19 PM »
If squeezing makes it cloudy, why not mash enough that you don't have to squeeze?
That would be a no sparge set up and the efficiency takes a pretty significant hit.  Cloudy into the boil kettle or carboy doesn't seem to negatively affect the flavor of 'MY' beer.  However there is less yield, which bothers me.

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It depends on gravity and equipment. We (Bryan and I) get high efficiency due to recirculation, 12 °P or less gravity and very little MLT loss. Bottom draining helps. Limiting deadspace helps as well. We both use bags as mash filters but don't dare squeeze them. Bryan is up around 90% mash η and I'm around 84% mash η with no-sparge.

Above 12 °P you'll maybe start seeing a hit due to absorption increasing.
Recirculation isn't in the OP, he's squeezing.

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He's asking about ways to get clearer wort and if he should do so. Eliminating squeezing is one way. You mentioned that without squeezing you'd be doing a no-sparge (squeezing is a kind of faux sparge I guess, meant to increase the extract of the kettle wort) and taking an efficiency it. I mentioned ways we get great no sparge mash η.

Seems like a logical extension to me.
From OP:
I see some comments from folks who say they love how clear their wort is going into the boil.  Why is that a good thing?  Can I improve my beer by improving the clarity of my wort?

The short is - it can be a good thing due to less oxidative material in your fermentation vessel, but it's a positive for yeast if you're harvesting your strains.

Nothing about recirculation or how to do so.  Not trying to be petty and I respect you and Bryan's knowledge; but this is really a problem on this forum these days.  Relative advice to relative questions from the original post would be nice.  Not the spiral of LoDo set ups and benefits of that method.  We all appreciate the passion, the knowledge, and the advice.  When asked to explain maybe then dive deeper into your knowledge bank.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2017, 01:35:05 PM »
It seems to me that all the bag is doing is replacing the need for a false bottom or screen, and an outlet for draining. Instead of draining the wort, you lift the bag. That bag and grain bed becomes a filter. Squeezing would likely force things through that your trying to catch. Folks who batch sparge don't press down on the grain bed to get every last drop. Er... at least I don't.

Big Monk

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2017, 01:47:45 PM »
I do BIAB with a good squeeze or three.  My wort never starts out clear but my beer ends up clear and tastes good.  I see some comments from folks who say they love how clear their wort is going into the boil.  Why is that a good thing?  Can I improve my beer by improving the clarity of my wort?

To the OP: if you are squeezing to increase efficiency, maybe consider just using the bag as a filter and doing a traditional sparge. This will stop a lot of the fats and lipids that Bryan described from going into the kettle with your preboil wort.

If squeezing makes it cloudy, why not mash enough that you don't have to squeeze?
That would be a no sparge set up and the efficiency takes a pretty significant hit.  Cloudy into the boil kettle or carboy doesn't seem to negatively affect the flavor of 'MY' beer.  However there is less yield, which bothers me.

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It depends on gravity and equipment. We (Bryan and I) get high efficiency due to recirculation, 12 °P or less gravity and very little MLT loss. Bottom draining helps. Limiting deadspace helps as well. We both use bags as mash filters but don't dare squeeze them. Bryan is up around 90% mash η and I'm around 84% mash η with no-sparge.

Above 12 °P you'll maybe start seeing a hit due to absorption increasing.
Recirculation isn't in the OP, he's squeezing.

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

He's asking about ways to get clearer wort and if he should do so. Eliminating squeezing is one way. You mentioned that without squeezing you'd be doing a no-sparge (squeezing is a kind of faux sparge I guess, meant to increase the extract of the kettle wort) and taking an efficiency it. I mentioned ways we get great no sparge mash η.

Seems like a logical extension to me.
From OP:
I see some comments from folks who say they love how clear their wort is going into the boil.  Why is that a good thing?  Can I improve my beer by improving the clarity of my wort?

The short is - it can be a good thing due to less oxidative material in your fermentation vessel, but it's a positive for yeast if you're harvesting your strains.

Nothing about recirculation or how to do so.  Not trying to be petty and I respect you and Bryan's knowledge; but this is really a problem on this forum these days.  Relative advice to relative questions from the original post would be nice.  Not the spiral of LoDo set ups and benefits of that method.  We all appreciate the passion, the knowledge, and the advice.  When asked to explain maybe then dive deeper into your knowledge bank.

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I was responding to you.

You brought up the efficiency hit and I responded to you with non-Low Oxygen brewing conversation about counteracting that hit. I'm confused: talking about brewing is problem on the forum these days?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 01:54:45 PM by Big Monk »

Offline deadpoetic0077

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Clear wort ???
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2017, 02:01:43 PM »
It seems to me that all the bag is doing is replacing the need for a false bottom or screen, and an outlet for draining. Instead of draining the wort, you lift the bag. That bag and grain bed becomes a filter. Squeezing would likely force things through that your trying to catch. Folks who batch sparge don't press down on the grain bed to get every last drop. Er... at least I don't.
Yea this is basically why we squeeze when doing BIAB. It's a way of "sparging" however, I do both. The bag acts as a false bottom , I sparge by either dunking the bag in water or by setting up a strainer and slowly running water thru the grains, and hen squeezing the bag. I then let it drip while sitting above the boil kettle to eat every lay drop I can. By doing the sparge squeeze and strain my system gets 74% efficiency pretty consistently. With very minimal effort on my part.

In response to OP, don't worry about it. Most BIAB people that I have talked to squeeze without any negative side effects.

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Re: Clear wort ???
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 02:25:22 PM »
Not trying to be petty and I respect you and Bryan's knowledge; but this is really a problem on this forum these days.  Relative advice to relative questions from the original post would be nice.  Not the spiral of LoDo set ups and benefits of that method.  We all appreciate the passion, the knowledge, and the advice.  When asked to explain maybe then dive deeper into your knowledge bank.

JJ, I was thinking the same thing.  Not sure why I responded at all to be honest, except that I thought my response might help the OP.
Dave

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