[erockrph]

I do BIAB with a good squeeze or three.  My wort never starts out clear but my beer ends up clear and tastes good.  I see some comments from folks who say they love how clear their wort is going into the boil.  Why is that a good thing?  Can I improve my beer by improving the clarity of my wort?

I say experiment for yourself and see whether you notice an improvement. But if you like how your beer tastes, don't feel the need to try to fix something that isn't broken.

FWIW, I BIAB, but in a cooler rather than the kettle (to help maintain mash temps primarily, but I have since found other benefits that work for my brewing). I squeeze the grain bag, because that gets me to a consistent efficiency % that I have calibrated my system to. I end up with cloudy wort in the kettle, but my finished beer turns out fine.

One test that I have done is adding a vorlauf prior to pulling my grain bag. I ended up with clearer beer into my kettle, but I noticed no difference in my finished beer. Needless to say, I don't bother with a vorlauf anymore. I'm looking to simplify my brewday whenever possible, and this step didn't prove to be worth the extra time for me. YMMV, but if there's a way to test it for yourself, I'd encourage you to do so.

Regarding efficiency, I don't know if squeezing a grain bag is an apples-to-apples comparison with oversparging. Both increase your efficiency, but squeezing doesn't change your pH or sugar concentration. It merely reduces your loss to grain absorption/dead space.

[denny]

There have been experiments run by some (Brulosophy? I forget) that showed that with all the cloudy trub stuff retained in the fermenter, the beer actually ended up more clear and better tasting than the same wort clarified going into the fermenter.

I don't think it's something to fret too much about.  We should all run our own experiments, but the likelihood of it really mattering much is probably close to nil.

Cheers.

Yeah they did, but years before that Joakim Ruud posted his results of the same experiment on HBD.

[denny]

If squeezing makes it cloudy, why not mash enough that you don't have to squeeze?

That would be a no sparge set up and the efficiency takes a pretty significant hit.  Cloudy into the boil kettle or carboy doesn't seem to negatively affect the flavor of 'MY' beer.  However there is less yield, which bothers me.

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It depends on gravity and equipment. We (Bryan and I) get high efficiency due to recirculation, 12 °P or less gravity and very little MLT loss. Bottom draining helps. Limiting deadspace helps as well. We both use bags as mash filters but don't dare squeeze them. Bryan is up around 90% mash η and I'm around 84% mash η with no-sparge.

Above 12 °P you'll maybe start seeing a hit due to absorption increasing.

Recirculation isn't in the OP, he's squeezing.

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He's asking about ways to get clearer wort and if he should do so. Eliminating squeezing is one way. You mentioned that without squeezing you'd be doing a no-sparge (squeezing is a kind of faux sparge I guess, meant to increase the extract of the kettle wort) and taking an efficiency it. I mentioned ways we get great no sparge mash η.

Seems like a logical extension to me.

From OP:
I see some comments from folks who say they love how clear their wort is going into the boil.  Why is that a good thing?  Can I improve my beer by improving the clarity of my wort?

The short is - it can be a good thing due to less oxidative material in your fermentation vessel, but it's a positive for yeast if you're harvesting your strains.

Nothing about recirculation or how to do so.  Not trying to be petty and I respect you and Bryan's knowledge; but this is really a problem on this forum these days.  Relative advice to relative questions from the original post would be nice.  Not the spiral of LoDo set ups and benefits of that method.  We all appreciate the passion, the knowledge, and the advice.  When asked to explain maybe then dive deeper into your knowledge bank.

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Very well put.

[Joe Sr.]

C'mon guys.  This seems like over-reaction and piling on for a post that was not far off topic as these threads typically drift. 

Here's how I saw the thread proceed: Does clear wort matter?  Maybe, but it might come with a hit to efficiency. Here's a way we get clear wort without a hit to efficiency.  Good Lord!  Stay on topic!!!

It gets old.

I thought we were trying to be better about this.

I don't have much to offer about clear wort.  Sorry.

[Big Monk]

C'mon guys.  This seems like over-reaction and piling on for a post that was not far off topic as these threads typically drift. 

Here's how I saw the thread proceed: Does clear wort matter?  Maybe, but it might come with a hit to efficiency. Here's a way we get clear wort without a hit to efficiency.  Good Lord!  Stay on topic!!!

It gets old.

I thought we were trying to be better about this.

I don't have much to offer about clear wort.  Sorry.

Very astute observation. I did bring it back on topic! That counts right?

[HoosierBrew]

C'mon guys.  This seems like over-reaction and piling on for a post that was not far off topic as these threads typically drift. 

Here's how I saw the thread proceed: Does clear wort matter?  Maybe, but it might come with a hit to efficiency. Here's a way we get clear wort without a hit to efficiency.  Good Lord!  Stay on topic!!!

It gets old.

I thought we were trying to be better about this.

I don't have much to offer about clear wort.  Sorry.

I agree. Didn't really see anything that merited the response.

[dmtaylor]

Has anyone gotten a score sheet back that directed you to shoot for 74% rather than the 70% you submitted

No, but a couple years ago I got some score sheets back with similar wording across different beers that clearly indicated I had a problem in my process.  The solution was to not be so greedy with getting every last bit of sugar out of the grain.  The judges obviously tasted the problem that was caused by too high efficiency, so I solved the problem (i.e. shoot for 80% not 84%).

Now this, I, too, have experienced, which led to my theory that very high efficiency is to be avoided.  More experiments are still needed to support/refute.

EDIT: And yes, this tangent has absolutely nothing to do with wort clarity.  Nothing.  Let's get back on it.

[The Beerery]

Has anyone gotten a score sheet back that directed you to shoot for 74% rather than the 70% you submitted

No, but a couple years ago I got some score sheets back with similar wording across different beers that clearly indicated I had a problem in my process.  The solution was to not be so greedy with getting every last bit of sugar out of the grain.  The judges obviously tasted the problem that was caused by too high efficiency, so I solved the problem (i.e. shoot for 80% not 84%).

Now this, I, too, have experienced, which led to my theory that very high efficiency is to be avoided.  More experiments are still needed to support/refute.

In our testing the astringency was very apparent. If you have 5 beers of the exact same wort hops yeast and age, its quite easy to pick out.

[JJeffers09]

Forgive me I called out on it early, because if not said early it has repeatedly hit that slippery slope. 

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[dmtaylor]

Joakim Ruud posted his results of the same experiment on HBD.

...which were..... (summarized nutshell is fine by me).

And out of curiosity, might he be related to Susan?

[denny]

Joakim Ruud posted his results of the same experiment on HBD.

...which were..... (summarized nutshell is fine by me).

And out of curiosity, might he be related to Susan?

Beers with trub were clearer, better tasting and preferred by his tasters.  I'd link to his results, but the HBD website just went through a rebuild and there are no archives at the moment.

[dmtaylor]

Joakim Ruud posted his results of the same experiment on HBD.

...which were..... (summarized nutshell is fine by me).

And out of curiosity, might he be related to Susan?

Beers with trub were clearer, better tasting and preferred by his tasters.  I'd link to his results, but the HBD website just went through a rebuild and there are no archives at the moment.

Thank you!  In my view, this confirms my initial response to the OP.  The doubting Thomases will still need to stick their fingers in the holes.  Whatever floats.

[klickitat jim]

Shouldn't batch spargers be pushing down on their grain bed to get every last drop?

[Stevie]

Shouldn't batch spargers be pushing down on their grain bed to get every last drop?

Some breweries do this. Alaskan pays such a premium for their ingredients that they need to optimize them as best as possible. They also use their spent grain to generate steam, so having it as dry as possible helps there too.


https://alaskanbeer.com/beerpoweredbeer/

[Philbrew]

Holy sh*t!!  43 replies overnight!  I didn't realize I was opening up a Pandora's Box but thanks for all the replies.

I can pump recirculate so I'll try that.