[mewolek]

Planning for my next brew day and thought I would like to try a Chocolate Orange Porter using the following recipe for a 5.5 gal batch:

7.25 Lbs Marris Otter
.75 Lbs Chocolate malt
.75 Lbs Crystal 40
.5 Lbs Crystal 120
.25 Lbs Black Patent Malt
.5 Lbs Flaked Oats
1 Lbs Orange Blossom Honey
.5 Lbs Lactose - Milk Sugar

Plan on adding 3 oz. orange zest and 6 oz. chocolate nibs soaked in vodka to the secondary along with 2 vanilla beans and fermenting with London Ale yeast (WLP013).  For water profile I am going to match the London water profile from Bru'n Water.

I am concerned about the flavors getting muddled as opposed to a dominate chocolate with a underlying orange flavor.  The milk sugar is there for body, but I don't want the results to be too sweet.

Any suggestions?

[pete b]

What pops out is the orange blossom honey. It will only serve to dry the beer out, and I am assuming you want a rich mouth feel. The honey will not add any orange character if that is what you were hoping.
I don't do a lot of flavored beer so others will have info about the amounts of orange and nibs. I don't think it will be muddled.

[mewolek]

Thanks Pete.  I had hoped that the lactose would offset the dryness of the honey.  I did get some nice orange notes the last time I brewed with the orange blossom honey from a local farm, but mileage may vary.  I may have to use a bit more MO and a less honey to keep the FG where I want.

[Joe Sr.]

You'll lose most of the aromatics from the honey if you boil it. If you add it late, or add it to the secondary, you should be able to carry some of the honey flavors through to the finished product.

IME, honey flavors are delicate regardless of how you add it and they may not come through in a porter.  Especially a chocolate porter.  Personally, I would still add it at knock out, but I'd probably cut back from 1lb to a 1/2 lb or so.  I'd up the orange zest if you were planning on orange from the honey.  No harm in increasing the MO to balance the gravity lost from the honey.

[pete b]

I wonder if orange blossom water at packaging would add a nice orange aroma. It isn't fermentable so you could just add it to the keg/bottling bucket. Orange "flavor" is mostly aroma, which is hard to capture.

[mewolek]

Joe - Planned on adding the honey late (apx 10 min) but can wait until knock-out.  Do you think the lactose will make up for the dryness that could be caused by the honey?

Pete - Interesting idea about the orange blossom water.  May try it will part of the bottles to see how it works.

[pete b]

Joe - Planned on adding the honey late (apx 10 min) but can wait until knock-out.  Do you think the lactose will make up for the dryness that could be caused by the honey?

Pete - Interesting idea about the orange blossom water.  May try it will part of the bottles to see how it works.

You could try dosing commercial porters with orange blossom water to see if you like it and get an amount. It won't be quite the same I imagine but at least you'll be sure its not gross.
About the honey: if I am trying to get honey character in a beer I add it as primary fermentation is winding down.

[Joe Sr.]

Joe - Planned on adding the honey late (apx 10 min) but can wait until knock-out.  Do you think the lactose will make up for the dryness that could be caused by the honey?

I've never used lactose, so I have no idea.  Sorry.

[mewolek]

Brewed this a few weeks ago and hit almost all my marks: OG and FG were spot on with an ABV of around 5.4%.  Color was great (deep brown) and it had a nice aroma of orange but not over powering.  While it has not finished carbonating the initial taste was good with a slight coffee note, but it did lack a noticeable chocolate flavor.  I had racked to secondary after primary fermentation completed onto 6 oz of chocolate nibs soaked in 1/2c of vodka and would have thought that I would have tasted/smelled some chocolate.  Will post again after conditioning.

[el_capitan]

The cacao nibs often lend more of a full mouthfeel than a pronounced chocolate character. 

[Ellismr]

Denny Con in his book suggests adding a chocolate extract at packaging.  He recommends a specific brand.


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