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Author Topic: Mash efficiency- equipment  (Read 6125 times)

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Mash efficiency- equipment
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2017, 12:44:15 pm »
I know this sounds crazy but, I've been able to get wort left in grain down to 0.015 gal./lb. by squeezing the bag and not worrying about clear wort.  Hope the beer doesn't taste harsh.  :'(
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Mash efficiency- equipment
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2017, 12:45:59 pm »
I've lowered my absorption number to .1 gal/lb (from
.12) to compensate. Volumes are spot on now.

Thought that might be the case :) Good explanation for your lauter efficiency increase.


Yup.
Jon H.

Offline Pricelessbrewing

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Re: Mash efficiency- equipment
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2017, 01:15:38 pm »
I know this sounds crazy but, I've been able to get wort left in grain down to 0.015 gal./lb. by squeezing the bag and not worrying about clear wort.  Hope the beer doesn't taste harsh.  :'(

I don't believe it. I've stood on my grain bag while placed on a stainless perforated colander and barely got lower than 0.07 gal/lb. Can you provide the measurements from this baffling experiment?

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Mash efficiency- equipment
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2017, 01:44:31 pm »
I know this sounds crazy but, I've been able to get wort left in grain down to 0.015 gal./lb. by squeezing the bag and not worrying about clear wort.  Hope the beer doesn't taste harsh.  :'(

I don't believe it. I've stood on my grain bag while placed on a stainless perforated colander and barely got lower than 0.07 gal/lb. Can you provide the measurements from this baffling experiment?
I probably screwed up the math.  For a 3.5 gallon batch (4.6 in boil) of Irish Red I used 8.3 lbs. of grain.  After mash and squeeze the wet grain weighed 9.4 lbs.  Of course, the dry weight of the grain after sugar extraction would be less than 8.3 lbs.  Maybe that's the mistake?
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Mash efficiency- equipment
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2017, 01:51:29 pm »
In my case, by reducing my dead space to basically zero. I took out the braid which I admit was extended further into the cooler by the bulkhead conversion I did. But just by pulling the bag over a small amount away from the drain, it puts a gentle pressure on the grain bed (without squeezing) that I couldn't have done before.

So basically the increase isn't from the bag itself, but from the new setup the bag allows you to have?


Mostly, but there is an ability (while figuring zero dead space) to drain the grain bed more completely than you could before - the bag tends to get sucked into the drain somewhat and they recommend to pull the bag away from the drain a couple inches to let it drain freely. Doing that gets a little more wort/sugar out by gently squeezing the grain bed . Regardless, I like it pretty well.

My grain bed is much dryer at the end of lauter with the bag than without it. Plus, I think clean up is much quicker and easier. For me the  benefits are worth the price.


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Offline Philbrew

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Re: Mash efficiency- equipment
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2017, 01:53:38 pm »
In my case, by reducing my dead space to basically zero. I took out the braid which I admit was extended further into the cooler by the bulkhead conversion I did. But just by pulling the bag over a small amount away from the drain, it puts a gentle pressure on the grain bed (without squeezing) that I couldn't have done before.

So basically the increase isn't from the bag itself, but from the new setup the bag allows you to have?


Mostly, but there is an ability (while figuring zero dead space) to drain the grain bed more completely than you could before - the bag tends to get sucked into the drain somewhat and they recommend to pull the bag away from the drain a couple inches to let it drain freely. Doing that gets a little more wort/sugar out by gently squeezing the grain bed . Regardless, I like it pretty well.
Jon, are you no-sparge or batch-sparge?  If the later do you pull the bag a couple inches for both?
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline Pricelessbrewing

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Re: Mash efficiency- equipment
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2017, 02:23:18 pm »

I probably screwed up the math.  For a 3.5 gallon batch (4.6 in boil) of Irish Red I used 8.3 lbs. of grain.  After mash and squeeze the wet grain weighed 9.4 lbs.  Of course, the dry weight of the grain after sugar extraction would be less than 8.3 lbs.  Maybe that's the mistake?

Would need to know the total water volume used between strike and sparging.

Weighting the grain bag after squeezing doesn't work very well, as it'll vary with the gravity as well as the absorption rate, it's a formula I haven't seen derived or used before and while I'm sure it's not all that difficult to derive, I don't really care to.

Apparent grain absorption rate ~= (Volume_Used - Preboil_Volume + Mashtun_deadspace) / Lb_of_grain
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 02:24:54 pm by Pricelessbrewing »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Mash efficiency- equipment
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2017, 04:18:37 pm »
In my case, by reducing my dead space to basically zero. I took out the braid which I admit was extended further into the cooler by the bulkhead conversion I did. But just by pulling the bag over a small amount away from the drain, it puts a gentle pressure on the grain bed (without squeezing) that I couldn't have done before.

So basically the increase isn't from the bag itself, but from the new setup the bag allows you to have?


Mostly, but there is an ability (while figuring zero dead space) to drain the grain bed more completely than you could before - the bag tends to get sucked into the drain somewhat and they recommend to pull the bag away from the drain a couple inches to let it drain freely. Doing that gets a little more wort/sugar out by gently squeezing the grain bed . Regardless, I like it pretty well.
Jon, are you no-sparge or batch-sparge?  If the later do you pull the bag a couple inches for both?

Mostly no sparge right now, some beers get sparged. I gently pull the bag a couple inches away from the drain anytime I drain. Not so much to get more wort sugar (though it happens), just a functional, easier draining/lautering thing.
 
Jon H.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Mash efficiency- equipment
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2017, 07:24:49 pm »

I probably screwed up the math.  For a 3.5 gallon batch (4.6 in boil) of Irish Red I used 8.3 lbs. of grain.  After mash and squeeze the wet grain weighed 9.4 lbs.  Of course, the dry weight of the grain after sugar extraction would be less than 8.3 lbs.  Maybe that's the mistake?

Would need to know the total water volume used between strike and sparging.

Weighting the grain bag after squeezing doesn't work very well, as it'll vary with the gravity as well as the absorption rate, it's a formula I haven't seen derived or used before and while I'm sure it's not all that difficult to derive, I don't really care to.

Apparent grain absorption rate ~= (Volume_Used - Preboil_Volume + Mashtun_deadspace) / Lb_of_grain
OK, that makes much more sense.  That way I get  (5.3 gal. - 4.75 gal. - 0) / 8.3 lb. = 0.066
That's right there with your 0.07... Whew!
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.