Author Topic: Hoppy Pils Water  (Read 2435 times)

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Hoppy Pils Water
« on: March 08, 2017, 08:23:44 PM »
Where should I be leaning on this? Jever boiled seem ok? I've read it's best to minimize the sulfate, but with the late and dry hops I assume the sulfate would be ok if not over done.

Not going crazy on the late hops. 0.50oz at 20, 1.5oz whirlpool and 1oz dry.

Note: I swear this was discussed recently, but I can't find the thread.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19932
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2017, 08:33:41 PM »
Jever boiled is what I use for that.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2017, 08:35:39 PM »
I've liked Jever boiled as well.
Jon H.

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2017, 08:47:11 PM »
Thanks

Offline mabrungard

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2490
  • Water matters!
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2017, 10:55:41 PM »
Sulfate does not make beer bitter nor make hops (noble or otherwise) harsh. It makes the beer finish drier. In my opinion, bitterness is mostly a product of bittering/gravity ratio.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/Brun-Water-464551136933908/?ref=bookmarks

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 10:58:21 PM »
Thanks Martin. I was going off old threads where both AJ and you had contributed. I want this to be dry and crisp, so I'll continue with Jever as planned.

Offline Philbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 12:05:24 AM »
Denny or Jon,
When you say you use Jever boiled, that's for mash water not finished beer profile.  Correct?
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 12:16:55 AM »
Denny or Jon,
When you say you use Jever boiled, that's for mash water not finished beer profile.  Correct?

Well, both. Unlike (for example) the pale ale profile where I often back off the sulfate a bit, I generally target the finished Jever profile. Depends on what I'm after though.
Jon H.

Offline Philbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 01:47:32 AM »
Denny or Jon,
When you say you use Jever boiled, that's for mash water not finished beer profile.  Correct?

Well, both. Unlike (for example) the pale ale profile where I often back off the sulfate a bit, I generally target the finished Jever profile. Depends on what I'm after though.
How do you get to 46 ppm CA and 15 ppm NA?

Edit:  Wait, are you adding pickling lime?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 01:54:22 AM by Philbrew »
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 02:04:32 AM »
Denny or Jon,
When you say you use Jever boiled, that's for mash water not finished beer profile.  Correct?

Well, both. Unlike (for example) the pale ale profile where I often back off the sulfate a bit, I generally target the finished Jever profile. Depends on what I'm after though.
How do you get to 46 ppm CA and 15 ppm NA?

Edit:  Wait, are you adding pickling lime?


I guess I should say that I don't target the exact Na values. I monitor Na to only be sure it doesn't get above 50ppm generally but don't care otherwise. As for the rest, I try to hit the 75 sulfate and 30 chloride values, along with the 46ish Ca. What I do is to add sufficient CaCl2 to hit 30ppm, then add gypsum until I hit the 46ppm Ca. Whatever sulfate value that is deficient to hit the 75ppm sulfate (if any) is then made up with Epsom salt. Of course, epsom = sulfate with no Ca. Balances out that way.
Jon H.

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 02:13:46 AM »
Mine is similar, but I'm using Gypsum, CaCl, and salt. No Epsom.

Offline Phil_M

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1706
  • Southern Maryland
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 02:19:25 AM »
Mine is similar, but I'm using Gypsum, CaCl, and salt. No Epsom.

Why not? I've had a much easier time dialing things in since I got epsom. It's really convenient to have a way to adjust sulfate without messing up your calcium levels.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 03:12:33 AM »
Not avoiding Epsom salt at all. Use it all the time. I just didn't need it to hit my target numbers here. I've been making a habit of including 15ppm sodium in every batch. Doing this here allowed for enough room to not go crazy on the calcium.

Offline Philbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2017, 04:13:39 PM »
Denny or Jon,
When you say you use Jever boiled, that's for mash water not finished beer profile.  Correct?

Well, both. Unlike (for example) the pale ale profile where I often back off the sulfate a bit, I generally target the finished Jever profile. Depends on what I'm after though.
How do you get to 46 ppm CA and 15 ppm NA?

Edit:  Wait, are you adding pickling lime?


I guess I should say that I don't target the exact Na values. I monitor Na to only be sure it doesn't get above 50ppm generally but don't care otherwise. As for the rest, I try to hit the 75 sulfate and 30 chloride values, along with the 46ish Ca. What I do is to add sufficient CaCl2 to hit 30ppm, then add gypsum until I hit the 46ppm Ca. Whatever sulfate value that is deficient to hit the 75ppm sulfate (if any) is then made up with Epsom salt. Of course, epsom = sulfate with no Ca. Balances out that way.
Thanks Jon,  That method worked perfectly and only needed CaCl2 and gypsum when starting with RO, which I do.

Next question...How do you incorporate the SMB when doing a LODO batch?
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Hoppy Pils Water
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2017, 04:22:54 PM »
Denny or Jon,
When you say you use Jever boiled, that's for mash water not finished beer profile.  Correct?

Well, both. Unlike (for example) the pale ale profile where I often back off the sulfate a bit, I generally target the finished Jever profile. Depends on what I'm after though.
How do you get to 46 ppm CA and 15 ppm NA?

Edit:  Wait, are you adding pickling lime?


I guess I should say that I don't target the exact Na values. I monitor Na to only be sure it doesn't get above 50ppm generally but don't care otherwise. As for the rest, I try to hit the 75 sulfate and 30 chloride values, along with the 46ish Ca. What I do is to add sufficient CaCl2 to hit 30ppm, then add gypsum until I hit the 46ppm Ca. Whatever sulfate value that is deficient to hit the 75ppm sulfate (if any) is then made up with Epsom salt. Of course, epsom = sulfate with no Ca. Balances out that way.
Thanks Jon,  That method worked perfectly and only needed CaCl2 and gypsum when starting with RO, which I do.

Next question...How do you incorporate the SMB when doing a LODO batch?


Well, using the trifecta mixture at the recommended .37g/gal , I count on around 45ppm sulfate. For lagers I use CaCl2 only, to hit just over 40ppm Ca, then lactic to correct pH . And for ales, I figure in the assumed 45ppm SO4 to whatever profile I'm using. In other words, if I'm brewing an APA and want 160ppm SO4,  I'll add 115ppm SO4 into software because I know I'm getting the other 45ppm from SMB.


Edited for simple math error.  :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 04:31:42 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.