Author Topic: Is this too many hops in session APA?  (Read 1431 times)

Offline natebrews

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Is this too many hops in session APA?
« on: March 15, 2017, 10:18:20 PM »
So I am, once again, going to make another 4.5% pale ale.  I was talking with someone and they were talking about this  3 malt (even split) thing they make.  I was planning to use the hops I have, cascade and columbus, rather than the mosaic that he used.  My question is, would you consider this to be excessively hopped, under hopped, or probably fine.  Please keep in mind that I'm just going for an easy drinking hoppy beer, not a super intense hoppy mess that tries to rip the enamel off my teeth.

3lb Maris Otter
3lb Rye Malt
3lb Wheat Malt

1oz Cascade @ 30
2oz Cascade @ 5
2oz Columbus @ 5

Wyeast 1968

I'm not going to do any dry hopping of it, just the late hops.  My other concern is that the Columbus will dominate completely over the cascades?

Thanks for your feedback.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 10:55:43 PM by natebrews »
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 11:11:14 PM »
I think your are right about the Columbus. If I use it to finish or dry hop an IPA, I use it about 15-25% of the addition.

As for the rest, it's more than I would use, but not out of line. Consider moving a good portion to 0 and allow to steep.

Offline natebrews

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2017, 11:21:15 PM »
I figured that I should probably go heavy on the late addition (I'm not sure how much 0min+steep and 5min really differ) so that no dry hopping would be needed.  I have done a few in the past where, post fermentation, the hop character had been largely removed by the yeast.

I'm not doing any bitterring (60m) because I should get enough (about 30IBU) from the <30min ones. 

Maybe flip the hop schedule around a bit?

1oz Columbus @ 15m
2oz Cascade @ 5m
0.5oz Columbus @ 5m

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Offline troybinso

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 11:33:51 PM »
It's hard to know unless you say what you are going for. Do you want a aggressive hop aroma or just moderate? The first recipe will give you aggressive, the second moderate.

The grain bill is pretty interesting. Where did you come up with it?

Offline natebrews

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2017, 11:40:23 PM »
I'm going for a easy drinking hoppy beer.  Not IPA hoppy, maybe like Sierra Nevada PA intensity, perhaps a touch more but not to the level of a torpedo.

The grain bill was something I picked up from a guy on a Brewing Network Chat while listening to 'The Session' this week.  He said that he makes it somewhat regularly and people like it quite a bit.  He clocks it in around 4.2% or so.  As I like making session beers, that seemed like a good thing malt bill seemed like something interesting to try.  I have been experimenting adding rye to things to give them a bigger mouth feel lately (scottish 60/-, english porter), and have been generally happy with the results.  I also have liked the Rye PA examples I have tried.
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Offline heavydeadlifts01

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 12:39:33 AM »
If I am looking for a "ballpark" targeted IBUs, I will try to hit that number with my 60 min bittering addition. I then totally disregard my <30min addition hops calculated IBUs. This gets me to the level of bitterness I perceive from most commercial examples with listed IBUs, and I totally heavy hop my 20/10/5/flameout additions to the point that beersmith calculates my IBUs ridiculously high. As with a few "exbeeriments" lately, we can almost assume our calculated total IBUs will always be considerably  lower than true levels in our finished homebrew.....


Offline natebrews

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 12:46:05 AM »
I'm pretty confident in my ability to hit the bitterness level I want.  I'm more concerned with getting the right hop character in the flavor/aroma.  I want pleasant intensity while maintaining easy drinking in quantity.

I almost always go on the low end of what the IBUs should be for a beer I'm trying to make.  I have found that I get a lot more bitterness than I planned whenever I do largely late hopped beers.  Consequently, I keep shooting low and I have been getting things that are more where I want them. 
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Offline natebrews

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2017, 01:23:24 AM »
Following up on this (I hate it when there isn't any conclusion to a story/question), I pulled the first samples out of the keg today and the thing is a grapefruit bomb (well, by my standards).  I ended up doing the original hopping (1oz casc @ 30, 2oz casc & columbus @ 5min), and it is quite aromatic and full of grapefruit flavor.  Maybe once it has matured a bit other things will come out, but at this point it is all grapefruit.

As a side note, the body and malt/grain character is pretty good even at 3.9% alcohol. 
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2017, 06:06:23 PM »
Maybe split the additions to WP. 
0.5 @30 Cas
1oz @5 Cas
1oz @5 Ctz

0.5@180F for 30
1oz Cas @175F for 20
1oz Ctz @175F for 20

Clean ale yeast an a 1.2-1.5 ratio ;-) touch of salt in the 12-14ppm for softer mouthfeel and bitterness?  Idk just brainstorming...

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Offline natebrews

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2017, 06:29:35 PM »
The bitterness is right where I want it, firm but not annoying.   I'm working with the low oxygen brewing methods, so I'm not entirely sure how a very long (30+) whirlpool would fit into that, even with a floating lid on the wort. 

I also have a bunch of zythos hops that I could try in there, maybe instead of the Columbus? 

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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2017, 02:38:11 PM »
That hop is very fruity.  Think pineapple sculpin.  I am not against it, but with the amount of cascade you may get another fruit bomb.  Idk if that's what you're after or not.

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Offline natebrews

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2017, 02:41:13 PM »
I would say that I'm not going for fruit bomb.  Fruity hop character is OK, but I like it to be beer first.  That may explain why I'm not too fond of the latest generations of IPAs which are big fruit (tropical, citrus, etc) monsters.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2017, 03:19:51 PM »
I would say that I'm not going for fruit bomb.  Fruity hop character is OK, but I like it to be beer first.  That may explain why I'm not too fond of the latest generations of IPAs which are big fruit (tropical, citrus, etc) monsters.


It's interesting how differently people can perceive a given hop. I get more C hop citrusy character than anything from Zythos, as opposed to tropical fruitiness. Definitely not the pine/dank character of Columbus, though.
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Offline fmader

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Re: Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2017, 05:45:26 PM »
Going with your original amount of hops, I think I'd do this...

1 oz Columbus at 30 minute
1 oz Columbus at 0 minute whirlpool
3 oz Cascade at 0 minute whirlpool

Your Columbus at 30 minutes will give it a solid bitterness backbone. You might even consider less (I like hop bitterness, so I'd leave it at 1) and have a rounder hop bitterness. Then you'll get a smoother hop finish by moving the rest out to 0 minutes as opposed to 5 minutes.

Regardless of what you do, I do not think you'll "over do" the hops in this session as far as my standards go. I'd even consider dry hopping with an ounce or two of cascade to boost your aroma a touch.
Frank

Offline natebrews

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Is this too many hops in session APA?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2017, 06:04:32 PM »
How much difference do you think you get between a 0-5min addition vs a 20 minute whirlpool at 180F (or whatever temp is used)?  I only did a long hop whirlpool once, but that was long ago and was underwhelming. 

I understand a lot of people are doing hop stands now, but I'm curious what a side by side of 0-5min vs hop stand would show.  When I revere this, I'll look into it since it should be easy enough to do. 

I have been avoiding dry hopping due to the oxygen pickup problems it can introduce (mostly taking them back out of the keg after it has done its thing).  I have done a couple where I put a nylon bag in the keg with hops, and that worked well for a while but I think long exposure time didn't help.  Things started tasting a bit off after a few weeks.
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