Author Topic: It begins...  (Read 8926 times)

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2017, 08:40:27 am »

....if you are buying pre-made kits to clone a beer you like, do you really care what the grain bill is?



Probably not. But the secretive nature is disappointing regardless. No paranoia here, but the buyout of NB is starting to look like I feared it might and hoped it wouldn't. Oh well, doesn't mean I have to buy there.

I don't think it's a huge deal, but I have always liked that I could look up a kit, download and print the recipe, and brew it on my own with ingredients purchased at the LHBS.  With an undisclosed list of grains, I can't do that.  I'm not likely to actually buy the kit anyway, so no loss to me.  If I want the milk porter I'll head on over to the tap room.  Which also isn't going to happen because traffic there is a nightmare.
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Online denny

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2017, 08:46:25 am »
Paranoia
The Destroyer

....if you are buying pre-made kits to clone a beer you like, do you really care what the grain bill is?

Good point
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Offline WattsOnTap

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2017, 08:50:47 am »
Both NB and Midwest Supplies started changing their pdf instructions awhile back (before the AB-InBev acquisition) to not include the grain bill.  They would instead have a statement similar to "check all ingredients listed on the box are present."  You could get around this with some, as they would usually include a picture of the box on the website.  I've noticed that's been less common lately, as well. 

When everyone was first discussing the acquisition, I made the joke you'd soon be able to get a Bud Light Lime kit from NB.  Looks like I wasn't too far off...

Offline zwiller

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2017, 08:54:46 am »
Paranoia
The Destroyer

....if you are buying pre-made kits to clone a beer you like, do you really care what the grain bill is?

Good point

+2 
Sam
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2017, 09:07:15 am »
Paranoia
The Destroyer

....if you are buying pre-made kits to clone a beer you like, do you really care what the grain bill is?

Maybe. I brewed a few clones when I first started. I found it helpful to be able to look at the recipe and see where those flavors came from and what proportions of different grains produced flavors I liked. If the goal is just to clone beers or brew solid recipes then I agree, it doesn't really matter.
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Offline Philbrew

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2017, 11:22:15 am »
This buyout thing doesn’t bother me yet. I stopped ordering from NB and Midwest years ago when they were bought out by an investment company and their customer service and speed of processing orders dropped.  I’ll be more concerned when they start trying to prevent other homebrew shops from selling kits similar to their beers or their homebrew kits...or if they become the exclusive stores for major homebrew products or brands.
They already have.  I happen to like their Big Mouth Bubbler fermenters.  Is there another source out there?
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Offline Delo

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2017, 12:31:44 pm »
This buyout thing doesn’t bother me yet. I stopped ordering from NB and Midwest years ago when they were bought out by an investment company and their customer service and speed of processing orders dropped.  I’ll be more concerned when they start trying to prevent other homebrew shops from selling kits similar to their beers or their homebrew kits...or if they become the exclusive stores for major homebrew products or brands.
They already have.  I happen to like their Big Mouth Bubbler fermenters.  Is there another source out there?
Good question. I know NB and Midwest are the only places I have seen them, but are they exclusively selling them or is it just that other places don’t carry them?

I was thinking more of AB being able to use their power to leverage contracts like Walmart did/does.
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Offline neddles

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2017, 01:13:50 pm »
Paranoia
The Destroyer

....if you are buying pre-made kits to clone a beer you like, do you really care what the grain bill is?

I have to disagree. You can learn something regarding what it is about the beer you're cloning that you like. There is plenty to be gained from knowing what malts were used IMO.

Offline cdawson

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2017, 01:36:53 pm »
Some of us who are newer to brewing or thinking of going all grain might use a clone or clone recipe as a baseline and then change it up from there to make it our own or try to improve on it for our own specific brewing setup and methods. Considering all the different variables to brewing it can be overwhelming to sit down with BeerSmith2 or other software and try to create a recipe if you don't have something to go off of.

Offline leejoreilly

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2017, 08:08:35 am »
Do pro brewers have some sort of responsibility to provide their customers with detailed recipes that will allow us to copy their commercial products? While I do deeply appreciate those pros who do share (I just brewed a Black Butte clone from a recipe that Deschutes shared in "Brew Your Own"), I consider that a generous gift by the brewer rather than my "right" as a consumer. I don't expect my favorite Italian restaurant to provide me with a detailed recipe for their famous red sauce...

Further, I think that being able to develop my own "clone" for my favorite brew is one of the most interesting challenges in homebrewing. Although, truth be told, whenever I start out trying to perfect a clone recipe, I always seem to veer off toward my own preferences in version 2 or 3; but I digress. But I'm never gonna exactly replicate a commercial brew anyway - too many variables.

Offline BrewBama

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It begins...
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2017, 08:18:08 am »
Paranoia
The Destroyer

....if you are buying pre-made kits to clone a beer you like, do you really care what the grain bill is?

I have to disagree. You can learn something regarding what it is about the beer you're cloning that you like. There is plenty to be gained from knowing what malts were used IMO.

Plus... I just like knowing what's in the ingredients list.


...But I'm never gonna exactly replicate a commercial brew anyway - too many variables.

I agree. I believe that's why they are willing to share the ingredients lists. The techniques and processes are usually the defining difference.


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« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 08:24:37 am by BrewBama »

Offline bengelbrau

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2017, 09:56:22 am »
Quote
They already have.  I happen to like their Big Mouth Bubbler fermenters.  Is there another source out there?

I just got a Fermonster from Morebeer. 7 gallons, some volume marks on the sides (kind of hard to see), and none of those crud trapping bubbles and ledges in the interior. Feels pretty substantial, and has a large opening in the top. The lids are kind of a PITA if you want to seal tightly.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2017, 10:06:52 am »
Do pro brewers have some sort of responsibility to provide their customers with detailed recipes that will allow us to copy their commercial products? While I do deeply appreciate those pros who do share (I just brewed a Black Butte clone from a recipe that Deschutes shared in "Brew Your Own"), I consider that a generous gift by the brewer rather than my "right" as a consumer. I don't expect my favorite Italian restaurant to provide me with a detailed recipe for their famous red sauce...

Nobody is suggesting there is a right to a pro recipe but it has been the norm for a long time that when you buy a recipe kit that it comes with the recipe. To not offer the recipe makes the kit less valuable.
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Offline Philbrew

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2017, 10:14:37 am »
Quote
They already have.  I happen to like their Big Mouth Bubbler fermenters.  Is there another source out there?

I just got a Fermonster from Morebeer. 7 gallons, some volume marks on the sides (kind of hard to see), and none of those crud trapping bubbles and ledges in the interior. Feels pretty substantial, and has a large opening in the top. The lids are kind of a PITA if you want to seal tightly.
Yeah, I fought the old screw-on BMB lids.  The new "big-stopper" lids seal well.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: It begins...
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2017, 10:48:40 am »
Paranoia
The Destroyer

....if you are buying pre-made kits to clone a beer you like, do you really care what the grain bill is?

Good point

I absolutely would! If you find a beer you like, and you want to uderstand what the ingredients are to make your beer taste like that, you need to understand the ingredients.

I'll be honest, never cared about the AB buying NB thing until now. I stopped buying from Williams Brewing because they wouldn't share the ingredients to their recipes years ago. It's the principle of the thing.