Author Topic: New to brewing...serveral questions  (Read 2384 times)

Offline turfgrass

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New to brewing...serveral questions
« on: April 05, 2017, 02:55:53 PM »
Hi there, after several years of making wine at home, I'm going to give all grain brewing.  I will be using the Grainfather system and hot liquor tank.  The last few days I have been reading as much as possible, but I do have a few questions.  My first attempt at all grain brewing will be a 5 gallon Dogfish 90 clone recipe.   There are a variety of hops in pellets and whole hop form.  A total of 17lbs of Malt from the combination of Munich and Pale two-row.  Below are the recipe directions.  Thanks in advance.

"90 minute IPA clone is created with a single infusion mash at 150F for 60 minutes."  Boil for 90 minutes adding hops in .2 ounce additions every 5 minutes for the duration of the boil. 

So, first I need to get the steps right and hopefully my terminology isn't to far off.

1. The initial water for mash in at 1.25 qts water/ lb of malt. so, 1.25x17/4= 5.3 gallons of water.
that water will be heated to 150F and then malts are mixed in for 60 minutes at the 150F temp.  with the recirculating pump on.

2.  After 60 minutes, 170F sparge water will be added to the malt bed.  I'm not sure how much will be needed, but I'm guessing adding what was lost to evaporation and absorption to get back to 5 Gallons????  Once sparge is complete and grains removed the pump will continue recirculation.

3. recirculate and bring to boil for 90 minutes.  Hops will be added during this boil period.  Would I be continuously adding sparge water throughout the 90 minutes to maintain the 5 gallon level?????

4. After 90 minutes, the beer will go through the counterflow until the temperature of the wort is down to 72F and fermented at that same temperature.

Probably enough questions for now.   I'm aware that irish moss or clarifying tabs can be added at some point.   



Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2017, 03:05:57 PM »
Hi there, after several years of making wine at home, I'm going to give all grain brewing.  I will be using the Grainfather system and hot liquor tank.  The last few days I have been reading as much as possible, but I do have a few questions.  My first attempt at all grain brewing will be a 5 gallon Dogfish 90 clone recipe.   There are a variety of hops in pellets and whole hop form.  A total of 17lbs of Malt from the combination of Munich and Pale two-row.  Below are the recipe directions.  Thanks in advance.

"90 minute IPA clone is created with a single infusion mash at 150F for 60 minutes."  Boil for 90 minutes adding hops in .2 ounce additions every 5 minutes for the duration of the boil. 

So, first I need to get the steps right and hopefully my terminology isn't to far off.

1. The initial water for mash in at 1.25 qts water/ lb of malt. so, 1.25x17/4= 5.3 gallons of water.
that water will be heated to 150F and then malts are mixed in for 60 minutes at the 150F temp.  with the recirculating pump on.

You'll want to heat to higher than your mash temperature because when you add the room temperature grain it will drop the water temperature.  Usually about 5-15 degrees hotter is good for the strike water, but you could use a calculator like at rackers.org - strike temp calculator (click this link for the calculator)

2.  After 60 minutes, 170F sparge water will be added to the malt bed.  I'm not sure how much will be needed, but I'm guessing adding what was lost to evaporation and absorption to get back to 5 Gallons????  Once sparge is complete and grains removed the pump will continue recirculation.

I'm not certain how exactly the GF works, but my understanding would be that you would raise the grain basket and lock it in place above the brew kettle (this starts draining the runnings into your boil kettle).  Once the draining slows, you would put your sparge water on your grainbed to rinse out the extra sugars and achieve your proper preboil volume.  Generally the preboil volume goal is your desired batch size PLUS the evaporation that will happen during the boil.  Evaporation is generally about 1 gallon (or more) per hour of boil; so if you're boiling for 90 minutes and want a final batch size of 5 gallons then it would be 5 gallons plus 1.5 gallons evap to total 6.5 gallons of preboil wort volume.  This is simplified but I think illustrates what you're goal is.

3. recirculate and bring to boil for 90 minutes.  Hops will be added during this boil period.  Would I be continuously adding sparge water throughout the 90 minutes to maintain the 5 gallon level?????

No, see the answer above. You normally start your boil with all brewing water/liquor already in the boil kettle (BK), and then you boil it down (through evaporation) to the proper batch size.

4. After 90 minutes, the beer will go through the counterflow until the temperature of the wort is down to 72F and fermented at that same temperature.

Yes.  Chill to pitching temperature (usually this is closer to ~65F), pitch your yeast, and ferment the beer at that same temperature.  In other words, it doesn't matter what the room temperature is as long as the beer temperature is at the value you want.  Some yeasts (saison) like a warm ferment of 72F+, but most ale yeasts are better suited to cooler temperatures (60-68F is typically a safe range).

Probably enough questions for now.   I'm aware that irish moss or clarifying tabs can be added at some point.

Irish moss or whirlfloc would be added at 15 and 5 minutes, respectively.

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 03:15:10 PM by stpug »

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2017, 03:21:23 PM »
Thanks for such a grain explanation.  I mentioned 72 degrees, bc that was part of the directions until gravity reaches terminal. 

Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 03:25:51 PM »
Thanks for such a grain explanation.  I mentioned 72 degrees, bc that was part of the directions until gravity reaches terminal.

Yeah, that happens.  The yeast strain/brand/variety might help us give a better recommendation for this particular beer.  Some British strains might actually be better suited at ~72F, whereas most "clean" yeast strains are better suited to the mid-60s.

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2017, 05:13:47 PM »
the recommended yeast is Wyeast 1056 American Ale yeast

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2017, 05:14:57 PM »
hopefully yeast comes with instruction???

Offline denny

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2017, 05:35:45 PM »
hopefully yeast comes with instruction???

Nope, not much.  For that beer, I think the general advice would be to make a yeast starter or use multiple packs of 1.056.  And I think you'd get better results with it if you fermented in the mid 60s.
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Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 08:10:43 PM »
hopefully yeast comes with instruction???

Nope, not much.  For that beer, I think the general advice would be to make a yeast starter or use multiple packs of 1.056.  And I think you'd get better results with it if you fermented in the mid 60s.

^^what he says.

It should be a fairly high gravity beer so the more you can pitch the better.  If you don't already have the yeast then you might opt for 2 sachets of dry US-05 (which is the twin-sister to 1056) as a simpler way of getting a decent pitch, especially on a first brew.  Otherwise, some kind of starter would be helpful in ensuring this beer ferments "according to plan" and with good success.

Offline denny

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 09:31:26 PM »
hopefully yeast comes with instruction???

Nope, not much.  For that beer, I think the general advice would be to make a yeast starter or use multiple packs of 1.056.  And I think you'd get better results with it if you fermented in the mid 60s.

^^what he says.

It should be a fairly high gravity beer so the more you can pitch the better.  If you don't already have the yeast then you might opt for 2 sachets of dry US-05 (which is the twin-sister to 1056) as a simpler way of getting a decent pitch, especially on a first brew.  Otherwise, some kind of starter would be helpful in ensuring this beer ferments "according to plan" and with good success.

I have to take exception to "twin sister of 1056".  They're not really that close, but 05 is an acceptable sub IMO.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2017, 01:45:35 AM »
I certainly need to learn more about yeast. 

Also looking for a single shop online or at local retailers for whole hops with little luck.   Seems like there are always one or two ingredients missing.  Finding whole hops is a problem. 

Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2017, 02:52:08 AM »
hopefully yeast comes with instruction???

Nope, not much.  For that beer, I think the general advice would be to make a yeast starter or use multiple packs of 1.056.  And I think you'd get better results with it if you fermented in the mid 60s.

^^what he says.

It should be a fairly high gravity beer so the more you can pitch the better.  If you don't already have the yeast then you might opt for 2 sachets of dry US-05 (which is the twin-sister to 1056) as a simpler way of getting a decent pitch, especially on a first brew.  Otherwise, some kind of starter would be helpful in ensuring this beer ferments "according to plan" and with good success.

I have to take exception to "twin sister of 1056".  They're not really that close, but 05 is an acceptable sub IMO.

Well, you can't stop there.... what's the story?

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2017, 02:52:46 PM »
"1. The initial water for mash in at 1.25 qts water/ lb of malt. so, 1.25x17/4= 5.3 gallons of water."

Actually the 1.25 qt/lb of grain was just a guess.  Any suggestions?

Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2017, 03:08:53 PM »
"1. The initial water for mash in at 1.25 qts water/ lb of malt. so, 1.25x17/4= 5.3 gallons of water."

Actually the 1.25 qt/lb of grain was just a guess.  Any suggestions?

That's a nice place to start, or you could go up to ~2qt/lb if you wanted or it suited your brewing process better.  Lots of opinion on this.  I've used everywhere from 1-3.2 qt/lb, and am closer to the latter lately (~3.0).

Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2017, 03:13:28 PM »
hopefully yeast comes with instruction???

Nope, not much.  For that beer, I think the general advice would be to make a yeast starter or use multiple packs of 1.056.  And I think you'd get better results with it if you fermented in the mid 60s.

^^what he says.

It should be a fairly high gravity beer so the more you can pitch the better.  If you don't already have the yeast then you might opt for 2 sachets of dry US-05 (which is the twin-sister to 1056) as a simpler way of getting a decent pitch, especially on a first brew.  Otherwise, some kind of starter would be helpful in ensuring this beer ferments "according to plan" and with good success.

I have to take exception to "twin sister of 1056".  They're not really that close, but 05 is an acceptable sub IMO.

Well, you can't stop there.... what's the story?

I only ask because nearly every brewer will tell you they are both "Chico" - have we been misled all these years?  BTW, I agree that there are differences, but not enough to recommend a starter versus dry-pitched sachet to a new beer brewer.

Just to clarify my earlier "twin sister of 1056" statement:  Assuming they are both the Chico strain, it's like have identical triplets (WY1056, WLP001, US-05) who were all raised in different households by different parents.  They are definitely going to have differences but the genetics still play a major role that causes many similarities. 

Offline denny

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2017, 03:43:37 PM »
Well, you can't stop there.... what's the story?

Although they all had the same original source, their characteristics have diverged over the years.  At EB, we did a test of 1056 vs. 001.  https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/writeups/writeup-yeast-comparison-same-strain-wyeast-1056-wlp001  Most people preferred the 1056, finding it a bit cleaner and drier.  You can extrapolate from Marshall's experiment about 001 and 05 being different that all 3 have differences from each other.  Personally, I taste so much peach/apricot from 05 that I don't use it any more. 
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

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