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Author Topic: New to brewing...serveral questions  (Read 6790 times)

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2017, 09:50:27 am »
okay, going back to how much strike water to start with for mash in....1.25x17 divided by 4 is 5.3 gallons of water.  However, you are suggesting to add an addition 1.5 gallons at mash in to account for evaporation once boiling.  So, it sounds as though I only need a little water in hot liquor tank for sparging???  The dogfish clone recipe suggests OG 1.086 and FG 1.016
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 09:58:10 am by turfgrass »

Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2017, 10:00:49 am »
Well, you can't stop there.... what's the story?

Although they all had the same original source, their characteristics have diverged over the years.  At EB, we did a test of 1056 vs. 001.  https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/writeups/writeup-yeast-comparison-same-strain-wyeast-1056-wlp001  Most people preferred the 1056, finding it a bit cleaner and drier.  You can extrapolate from Marshall's experiment about 001 and 05 being different that all 3 have differences from each other.  Personally, I taste so much peach/apricot from 05 that I don't use it any more.

Okay, this pretty much jives with what I know, and I am pretty much in agreement with the taste differences.  I also get some extra fruitiness (peach at times) from US05 as compared to 1056, and for me it excludes it's use except when I'm in a jam, BUT it's a dead-simple method of fuss-free yeast pitching and still a great resource for folks.  I also find US-05 to be quite a bit more powdery than 1056.  Thanks for expounding.

Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2017, 10:11:01 am »
okay, going back to how much strike water to start with for mash in....1.25x17 divided by 4 is 5.3 gallons of water.  However, you are suggesting to add an addition 1.5 gallons at mash in to account for evaporation once boiling.  So, it sounds as though I only need a little water in hot liquor tank for sparging???  The dogfish clone recipe suggests OG 1.086 and FG 1.016

In your example, the 5.3 gallons is your strike water of which you'll probably get ~3.2 back out of the grain (assuming you don't squeeze the grainbed) into your BK, and that's with no evaporation.

Let's say you want 5 gallons of wort in your fermenter and don't have any system losses (this excludes evaporation).  If you will boil off 1.5 gallons of water in 90 minutes then you need 5 gallons + 1.5 gallons for a total of 6.5 gallons preboil wort.  You can see above that you only have 3.2 from the mash so you basically need to sparge with 3.3 gallons to get your proper 6.5 preboil volume (3.2 first runnings + 3.3 sparge runnings = 6.5 preboil wort volume).  So, you will need 3.3 gallons of water in your HLT for sparging.

Again, this is fairly simplified and doesn't account for any extra losses in your process/system, but hopefully paints the picture well enough.  If you planned on leaving behind break material in your BK then that would be a loss you would need to add to the original water amount.  If you used hoses/pumps/tubes/etc that has a loss quantity then that would be another amount you'd need to add to the original water amount.

Keep hitting us back with questions because the more clear this is when you're brewing the easier your day will flow.  I hope this helps!

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2017, 10:41:06 am »
So, I will be adding the 17lbs of grain to 5.3 gallons of water during mash in for 60 minutes.   Then adding 1.5gal of sparge water over the grainbed to be at 6.5 gallons preboil.  Assuming a gallon per hour (90 minute boil) is lost to evap, I should have about 5 gallons of wort for chilling and transfer to the fermenter.  This sound correct?  Kinda lost me at the 3.2 first running and 3.3 sparge running. 

How do you arrive at the 3.2 calculation?

Thank you very much for helping.

Offline 802Chris

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2017, 10:41:29 am »
I don't want to rain on your parade, and PLEASE keep in mind I have no idea your level of experience, especially BC you said you have made wine. BUT, I would say a dogfish head 90 minute IPA might not exactly be the best beer to learn how to brew an all grain beer on.

1. Veteran all grain brewers can have difficulty with big beers, both with hitting numbers on the mash and with making sure fermentation goes well.
2. You are going to have a LOT going on with your first AG beer that will be new and different to you. A massive beer with hop additions every two minutes is a beast of a brew day for anyone, let alone a new AG brewer.

If you are going to go for it, I would recommend having a veteran brewer help you out, if you know anyone. Also PLAN ahead and make sure you are 100% set up and know every step before you start, you will not want to feel rushed once things get going.

Again I don't want to talk you out of this, I just want you to make a beer you will love and HAVE FUN, so you stick with this awesome hobby! Maybe I can ask a few questions so we can all steer you in the right direction?

What equipment are you brewing on?
How long have you been brewing wine?
Is this in fact your first beer?
Do you know anyone who could maybe help with your first AG brew day?
Are you 100% set on making this specific beer?

Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2017, 10:57:56 am »
So, I will be adding the 17lbs of grain to 5.3 gallons of water during mash in for 60 minutes.   Then adding 1.5gal of sparge water over the grainbed to be at 6.5 gallons preboil.  Assuming a gallon per hour (90 minute boil) is lost to evap, I should have about 5 gallons of wort for chilling and transfer to the fermenter.  This sound correct?  Kinda lost me at the 3.2 first running and 3.3 sparge running. 

How do you arrive at the 3.2 calculation?

Thank you very much for helping.

No worries.  Let me re-phrase and try again.  We know you'll want to start the boil with 6.5 gallons so that 90minutes later you still have 5 gallons of wort remaining to turn into beer.

After mashing your strike water (5.3 gallons) with your 17lb grain, you will drain the wort from the mash.  You should get in the ballpark of 3.2 gallons of wort.  However, we need to get 6.5 total so 3.2+X=6.5, where X=3.3 gallons of sparge water needed.  It's this 3.3 gallons that you'll put through your grainbed to sparge with.  Once you've done that you'll have 6.5 gallons of preboil wort to start your boil. Does that make more sense? If not, no worries, I'll try again ;D

As for the 3.2 first runnings quantity: I assume 0.125 gallon grain absorption per pound of grain: 17x0.125=2.125 water loss due to absorbtion.  So 5.3 gallons of strike minus 2.125 gallons absorbed equals 3.175 gallons of first runnings (I rounded and called this 3.2 gallons).

Confusion clarification: I'm not overly familiar with the grainfather so perhaps I'm not understanding how the sparging takes place on that unit.  My assumption was that after mashing you would lift the basket and lock in place above the BK, AND THEN you would pour the sparge water through the grainbed (and those runnings would also end up in the BK eventually).  If I'm not correctly understanding how the GF functions then please let me know and I'll adjust my thinking.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 11:00:19 am by stpug »

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2017, 02:05:57 pm »
That makes perfect sense.  Thank you.   The Grainfather works exactly as described. 

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2017, 05:08:54 am »
Question about strike water temperature.  I understand adding room temp. grain will lower the temperature of the strike water, so strike water is initially higher than target.   The target being 150F for 60 minutes.    Once the grain is added to the strike water of 166F and temp begins to drop, do I monitor and adjust until the temperature levels off at 150F?

Offline roger

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2017, 06:45:03 am »
Don't worry too much about that, the temperature drops fairly quickly. I would encourage you to take detailed notes about this, so that next time you brew this you can make adjustments for your system, so you can predict accurately the mash-in temperature. I.E., amount of grain and water, and temperature of both in the mash.

I do worry a bit about mashing in too warm, and possibly destroying some enzymes. I like to target a couple of degrees low, and after a short rest, let the system regulate to your setpoint. I'm not sure I've ever noticed a problem when missing my mash-in a couple of degrees high, but it just kinda makes sense.
Roger

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2017, 06:48:06 am »
yeah, I'm a bit worried about over doing too.   Guessing better to have the error on the lower end and increase slightly?

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2017, 07:09:16 am »
Too high is pretty high.

I've mashed beers at 162 and even as high as 164 and still got good conversion. if you are aiming for 150, and you hit 155 you MIGHT notice a slight difference in body.
 
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Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2017, 08:18:24 am »
Gotcha.   What's the issue with hitting slightly lower and just increasing the temp?

Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2017, 09:31:05 am »
Question about strike water temperature.  I understand adding room temp. grain will lower the temperature of the strike water, so strike water is initially higher than target.   The target being 150F for 60 minutes.    Once the grain is added to the strike water of 166F and temp begins to drop, do I monitor and adjust until the temperature levels off at 150F?

The rackers.org calc is a pretty good resource for simple strike water temp determination.  If you're wary of it's calculated temperature then you could err a little on the cooler side (say 2 degrees cooler), and see where you end up.  I always found it easier to reduce mash temp (using ice or a frozen water bottle) then to increase temp, and much quicker too.

Rackers indicates that for a mash ratio of 1.25, targeting 150 mash temperature, and using grain at my room temperature (72F), the strike water should be 165F.  If you're worried of resting too hot then try reducing a couple degrees (163F), and see where you land - then adjust next time based on how this time worked out (that last part is something to get familiar with because it's the nature of this beast :D)

Offline turfgrass

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2017, 09:55:29 am »
I assume the recirculating pump can be switched on as soon as the grains are mixed and there are no clumps?

The rackers.org site has some nice calculations available.....Rest calculation- at what point do you take the current temp?  Once grains are mixed?  Looks like it provide you with a water boil quantity to add to get to the targeted mash in temp?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 10:01:22 am by turfgrass »

Offline stpug

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Re: New to brewing...serveral questions
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2017, 10:08:15 am »
I assume the recirculating pump can be switched on as soon as the grains are mixed and there are no clumps?

The rackers.org site has some nice calculations available.....Rest calculation- at what point do you take the current temp?  Once grains are mixed?  Looks like it provide you with a water boil quantity to add to get to the targeted mash in temp?

I couldn't really say about the pump since I don't use a pump and don't know well enough about the GF to give any recommendations.  I would imagine that information is listed in the manual somewhere - hopefully.

In regards to Rackers Rest calc: you would ideally take the temperature right before adding boiling water to hit your next rest for the most accurate calculation.  This would be used in a circumstance where, say, you were resting at 150 and wanted to go up to 160 for 20 minutes, it could tell you how much boiling water you need to add to make that mash temp adjustment (keeping in mind they're working off of 212F as a boiling point; if you're high enough in elevation then it may require additional water due to a lower boiling point) - caveats :D