Author Topic: lactic acid amount?  (Read 1573 times)

Offline russell

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lactic acid amount?
« on: April 05, 2017, 05:50:34 PM »
doing the experimental beer that was in Zymurgy's March-April magazine. Using only Pale malt and two additions of Cascade (60 and 10 minutes). looks like i am going to use Doing a 2.5 gallon Electric pot BIAB batch (pot is 8 gallons) to cut down on the cost and just incase it doesn't work out.
 I also want to refine my water additions doing this. Looking at bru'n water, yellow balanced, I find I will need 6.5 ml of Lactic acid for the whole thing. And adding 1 gram of gypsum Per gallon (not sure if I should use gypsum either).
 How much Lactic acid if too much? I am concerned about messing up everything here.
 Wyeast 2112 , California lager.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 06:37:38 PM by russell »

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2017, 05:52:11 PM »
Anything that drops your pH below 5.2

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Offline Stevie

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2017, 06:00:03 PM »
6.5 ml is a ton of acid for a 2.5 gal batch. What is your source water like?

Offline russell

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 06:25:24 PM »
 ya seems like a lot of Lactic to me too. that is why I asked about it.
from Ward labs
Calcium    43 ppm
Magnesium    9
sodium         46
Bicarbonate (HCo3)    119
Carbonate       1.2
Sulfate ...(So4)     69
Nitrate (No3)    .1ppm
potassium        2
Alkalinity .... (CaCo3)  99
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 06:39:13 PM by russell »

Offline Stevie

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2017, 06:39:48 PM »
I don't have familiarity with that recipe, but you should be able to get to 5.4-5.5 with some gypsum and less than 2ml of lactic. Diluting your base water with RO can be helpful as well.

Offline russell

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2017, 06:56:44 PM »
Dumb mistake,sorry. I used the water for 5 gallons instead of 2.5 gallons and now with 1 ml of lactic acid I get .90 ml per gallon which comes out to 4.5 ml of lactic for the full 2.5 gallon of water (4.5 gallon mash and boil in my electric BIAB  pot. figure on one gallon loss in Mash and one gallon loss for boil seems right to me.)

Offline Stevie

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2017, 07:12:39 PM »
That's still a lot. 1ml /gal is the most often cited amount where flavor begins to show. Try playing with the dilution options and see if you can avoid using so much lactic. You can also look into phosphoric acid.

Offline stpug

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 08:15:48 PM »
I agree with stevie... that's a lot of acid for such a small amount of water. Are you sure you've adjusted the strength of the acid in Bru'N water correctly?  Typically lactic is ~85-88%, but it may come in some other strengths as well.  I feel like you should be in the 3ml range, but that's a complete guess.  Can you post a screenshot of your Bru'N additions sheet? Also, how much, and what kind of, base grain are you using?

Offline mabrungard

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 08:36:30 PM »
1 ml 88% lactic per gallon is safe. Flavor effects for most drinkers start at about 1.5 ml per gal.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2017, 08:45:33 PM »
I've made saisons with 1 ml/gal of lactic acid with similar water without a problem.  Will my experience transfer to different beers?  That is hard to say other than taste thresholds are usually based on water - the 1 ml/gal that Stevie refers to is I'm guessing the taste threshold in water - and beer has more flavor to hide the lactic acid.

My recommendation would be to proceed as plan.  If you taste the beer and it tastes acidic, then you can always add a little baking soda.

Offline bayareabrewer

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 11:49:18 PM »
1 ml 88% lactic per gallon is safe. Flavor effects for most drinkers start at about 1.5 ml per gal.

1 mg/gallon of finished beer, or mash water?

Offline muzak

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2017, 02:18:24 PM »
I believe it's 1ml per gallon of mash and sparge water.
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Offline Ellismr

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2017, 10:49:31 AM »
I use a Ph meter and when I make pale beers such as a Kolsh I used 2 ml in a 5 gal batch. That got me down to 5.3. It's the malt that drops the Ph along with the buffering capacity of your water. 


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Offline russell

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2017, 04:20:10 PM »
 looking at my malt profile it seems that by adding a little Crystal 10 brings the PH down. I was looking to do a Smash beer but it is hard to get the PH down without the crystal without a large amount of  Gypsum or Lactic acid.
 I brewed the beer yesterday, getting the PH down to 5.46  with 2.5 ml of lactic (.80 ml per gallon) and .8 oz. of Gypsum ( .20 grams per gallon) for the total water in a 2.5 gallon batch. it came out extremely clear out of the brew pot.  Will take a few weeks to see how it tastes it probably will taste better with some Crystal for taste.

Offline Stevie

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Re: lactic acid amount?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2017, 04:23:33 PM »
Dilute your water with distilled. Problem solved.