[bayareabrewer]

It seems that most trials that refute LODO inevitably degrade into discussions as to how the trial was done incorrectly.

It seems to me that most trials of any sort have room for improvement.

true, but when someones trial leads them to believe in LODO, they are congratulated for finding "it", however when someones trial leads to something like the conclusions drawn by brulosophy, its is picked apart. Basically if you like it, you did it right, if you don't you did it wrong. That's just insane.

[erockrph]

It seems that most trials that refute LODO inevitably degrade into discussions as to how the trial was done incorrectly.

It seems to me that most trials of any sort have room for improvement.

true, but when someones trial leads them to believe in LODO, they are congratulated for finding "it", however when someones trial leads to something like the conclusions drawn by brulosophy, its is picked apart. Basically if you like it, you did it right, if you don't you did it wrong. That's just insane.

Maybe "it" is just sulfur and everyone is right...

[natebrews]

I think there is a long history on this forum of people picking apart experiments where people using low O2 methods and claim to have good results.  So, to say that only those experiments that yield results that discount low O2 brewing are nit picked is somethings of a misrepresentation.

[bayareabrewer]

I think there is a long history on this forum of people picking apart experiments where people using low O2 methods and claim to have good results.  So, to say that only those experiments that yield results that discount low O2 brewing are nit picked is somethings of a misrepresentation.

I was referring to LODO proponents.

[denny]

It seems that most trials that refute LODO inevitably degrade into discussions as to how the trial was done incorrectly.

It seems to me that most trials of any sort have room for improvement.

true, but when someones trial leads them to believe in LODO, they are congratulated for finding "it", however when someones trial leads to something like the conclusions drawn by brulosophy, its is picked apart. Basically if you like it, you did it right, if you don't you did it wrong. That's just insane.

Maybe "it" is just sulfur and everyone is right...

That's not the first time that speculation has been made

[stpug]

The gravity difference between the trials is remarkable. I'm trying to understand how the process or SMB could affect that to that degree. There is no doubt that the gravity difference would markedly alter the beer flavor and perception.

I appreciate the author mentioning the honey notes in the regular beer version. Unfortunately that note is a sign of oxidation. I'm curious if the beers can be retasted in a few months to assess if the longevity of the beers is affected.

My LODO beers have not had a drop in OG, that I remember.

Honey aroma and taste in a Helles or Pils is a definite sign of oxidation. I no longer buy imports much, as most often they have that. You don't get the honey at the breweries and Biergarten in Germany.

No OG drops here either. I agree that the honey points to oxidation.

Interesting.  Did you see that Jake mentioned he had done several LODO beers and all had lower OGs? Wonder what could account for that?

Inefficient mixing leading to poor conversion would be my guess.  Most things don't change from standard to low oxygen brewing practices.

[erockrph]

It seems that most trials that refute LODO inevitably degrade into discussions as to how the trial was done incorrectly.

It seems to me that most trials of any sort have room for improvement.

true, but when someones trial leads them to believe in LODO, they are congratulated for finding "it", however when someones trial leads to something like the conclusions drawn by brulosophy, its is picked apart. Basically if you like it, you did it right, if you don't you did it wrong. That's just insane.

Maybe "it" is just sulfur and everyone is right...

That's not the first time that speculation has been made

And it is mentioned as one possible conclusion in the xBmt article as well.

I was being slightly facetious, although I do find that getting a faint sulfur character in my lagers makes them taste more authentic to me. I can get this through yeast choice and management, without SMB though. Maybe some brewers are picking up on this character in their LODO brews and consider it a positive result.

[stpug]

The gravity difference between the trials is remarkable. I'm trying to understand how the process or SMB could affect that to that degree. There is no doubt that the gravity difference would markedly alter the beer flavor and perception.

I wonder whether he needs to adjust the mill gap to account for the conditioned grain.

I'm just one person but I didn't need to adjust my mill gap for milling conditioned grain, and my efficiency remained the same.

[denny]

So, to the comments tjhat they should have made a lager to test it, Marshall said this in the comments...."We consulted with a major proponent of LODO while designing this xBmt, he assured us the benefits would be seen in Kölsch or pretty much any other beer style. That said, when we revisit it, it will likely be with a light lager."  Also..."We specifically asked about Kölsch."

[zwiller]

It seems that most trials that refute LODO inevitably degrade into discussions as to how the trial was done incorrectly.

Not refuting anything - I'm sharing my experience with OGs.

Let me put out a pre-emptive "Everybody chill." Life and death isn't riding on either side of this. 

hahaha agreed.  Sorry, not writing LODO off from this...  Same goes for plenty other exbeeriments I don't agree with.  That said, I do agree with many of them.  Probably 50/50 overall for me. 

[stpug]

But it's supposedly equally viable with any style, right?  And there isn't a vast difference between a kolsch and a helles.

Not necessarily from my perspective.  Some styles seem to have a component in their character that stems from oxidative reactions, but not a kolsch (IMO).  And, IMO, there IS a vast difference between a kolsch/ale and a helles/lager - completely different breed of yeast strain.

[denny]

I also asked if one mash had been stirred and the other hadn't.  We'll see what Marshall says.

[Stevie]

The beer style choice doesn't bug me, but the difference in gravity does. Something is happening that shouldn't be.

[denny]

But it's supposedly equally viable with any style, right?  And there isn't a vast difference between a kolsch and a helles.

Not necessarily from my perspective.  Some styles seem to have a component in their character that stems from oxidative reactions, but not a kolsch (IMO).  And, IMO, there IS a vast difference between a kolsch/ale and a helles/lager - completely different breed of yeast strain.

But they specifically asked one of the LODO "biggies" and he said kolsch would be fine.

[dmtaylor]

My 2 cents:

As always, more experiments are needed.

And, I will let someone else run them.

Cheers.