[Bilsch]

One thing I wonder about is why in this experiment the author chose to use 55mg/l of NaMeta. He stated elsewhere his system would be fine using 20-30 ppm, and also that he had tried that and still had eggy flavors.
That begs the question.. if you know in advance your system is tight enough to use less busulfites, why do the experiment with twice as much? Would that not almost guarantee a sulfury result?
And secondly if you got sulfur in your test beer, does that not say you did something wrong and probably should try it again before proceeding to sensory testing?
Seems to me the process didn't fail the brewer but more probably the reverse.

[Phil_M]

A simply observation of this entire topic is reminiscent of Ford vs. Chevy

That's a great way to put this. Some folks want the modern technology in a Ford V8 mod motor, other want the simplicity of an LS V8. There's no wrong answer if you know what it is that YOU are looking for.

Same is true of beer. For every "get good beer the simplest way possible" there's a process geek always willing to throw simplicity aside. These low oxygen arguments are seeming to sound more like a battle of brewing ideologies than a criticism of a new or different approach.

And FWIW, LS power all the way...

[chumley]

I don't think Ford vs. Chevy is a good analogy for regular brewing  vs. Lodo.  Both Ford and Chevy are easy to operate American vehicles with common sense, easy to use, intuitively labeled controls.  I would rather say, Ford vs. Subaru.  (This after I spent 5 minutes how to shut off the wipers on my wife's Subaru this morning).

[pete b]

How about Ford vs Volkswagon? Volkswagon is German and emits too much sulfur due to the emissions controls being off.

[zwiller]

Seriously?  This should make things interesting...  Vette versus 911.  Enjoy 

[natebrews]

I think this topic is drifting away.

Besides, the one car to rule them all:
1988 Chevy Corsica with a K&N sticker in the back window, maybe with a Folgers can exhaust.

[VictorBrew]

I would say we have officially drifted away ...

However, the last few posts proves the point I was trying to make ... there is no agreement ... it is choice.  That is what makes brewing a blast in the first place!

[HoosierBrew]

I would say we have officially drifted away ...

However, the last few posts proves the point I was trying to make ... there is no agreement ... it is choice.  That is what makes brewing a blast in the first place!

I agree.

[erockrph]

A simply observation of this entire topic is reminiscent of Ford vs. Chevy or Tesla

I'll take Tesla. Gonna drop my deposit on a Model 3 as soon as the first batch comes off the line.

I will admit that the strong sides that have been drawn on this topic are a bit frustrating for me. I am trying to keep an open mind on the whole LODO thing until I can give it a thorough trial myself, but whenever any information gets posted (pro or con) everyone seems to start pulling stongly for their side to come out on top. Thankfully, this is still way better than it was a year ago...

[Big Monk]

The truth is that almost all of the Brulosphy experiments are hot topics when they come out.

"I would have done this..."

"This is flawed..."

While you may disagree with the utility or validity of the experimental results on this one (which I do for reasons that don't include anything related to Low Oxygen brewing), you had to admit this:

It was a tasteful and fairly objective write up with experiment self critiques and the whole nine. Definitely can't complain about that.

[blair.streit]

...you had to admit this:

It was a tasteful and fairly objective write up with experiment self critiques and the whole nine. Definitely can't complain about that.

Couldn't agree more! It's clear that a lot of time, thought and selflessness went into the experiment and subsequent write-up here. It's a lot easier to Monday morning quarterback than it is do put ourselves out there and do it with the level of professionalism that these guys bring to the table every week.

Hats off Brulosophers -- keep making it easy for the rest of us to comment from the cheap seats ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bayareabrewer]

The truth is that almost all of the Brulosphy experiments are hot topics when they come out.

"I would have done this..."

"This is flawed..."

While you may disagree with the utility or validity of the experimental results on this one (which I do for reasons that don't include anything related to Low Oxygen brewing), you had to admit this:

It was a tasteful and fairly objective write up with experiment self critiques and the whole nine. Definitely can't complain about that.

will you be altering your brewing methods at all because of this objective writeup?

[Big Monk]

The truth is that almost all of the Brulosphy experiments are hot topics when they come out.

"I would have done this..."

"This is flawed..."

While you may disagree with the utility or validity of the experimental results on this one (which I do for reasons that don't include anything related to Low Oxygen brewing), you had to admit this:

It was a tasteful and fairly objective write up with experiment self critiques and the whole nine. Definitely can't complain about that.

will you be altering your brewing methods at all because of this objective writeup?

No. I spoke elsewhere about 2 points that stuck out for me:

1.) If they didn't get a statistically significant result on 2 beers with a 10 gravity point Δ, I'd be worried.

2.) If they had gotten an overwhelming majority of drinkers who preferred the lower gravity sulfur bomb, I'd be worried.

I think the brewer Jake had some great comments in his self critique at the end and maybe they will run an experiment in the near future where the beers are more consistent in relation to one another.

An interesting read for sure and I hope, as Marshall seems to have implied in some of the comments to their post on the Brulosophy site, that they continue  to refine and explore the methods over there.
   

[bayareabrewer]

any thoughts on Charles Bamforths comments re: meta usage?

[Big Monk]

any thoughts on Charles Bamforths comments re: meta usage?

I think you kind of hinted at this over at HBT yesterday.

I think if you tailor your dose to your system you'll have enough to scavenge what is known to be your systems oxygen uptake and any remainder will be used up when you aerate-oxygenate in the fermentor. Keeping with what Bforth says, you don't want any additional Meta that you don't need. If what Bamforth says is true, any leftover sulfites may be converted to undesirable compounds. I can't speak directly to this but he is certainly a known and reputable source.

I think the sulfur bomb beers may be a result confirming certain aspects of what Bamforth says. If you are using a known sulfur producing yeast and you overdose on Meta you may open up a pathway to sulfide and additional sulfur flavor components.

Ultimately the goal is to use ZERO antioxidants. Some are getting pretty close to that. You can always use sulfite test kits or strips to sort out how much you are actually using and adjust from there.