[Richard]

Sulfate and sulfite is why.


Sulfite is an antioxidant(meta, so2), sulfate(s04) is not.

But yeast can turn sulfate into sulfite and excrete the sulfite, so increasing the sulfate in the water may lead to increased sulfite in the final beer. How much depends on the yeast, pitching rate,  fermentation temperature, etc.

[Bilsch]

Bringing up an old thread to ask a question.  Unfortunately, some (all?) of these Brewers have transitioned to another platform. Maybe someone else can chime in. Here goes:

Why Kmeta or Na Meta?  Will Gypsum not provide the same sulfur to create the mechanisms to create antioxidive properties?  If not why not?  If so, why not use gypsum vs CaCl to provide the calcium for the mash at the same time adding the sulfur?

Because gypsum (calcium sulfate) simply dissociates in water into calcium and sulfate ions. Whereas sulfites such as sodium metabisulfite will react with the DO in solution (2Na2S2O5 + O2 → 2Na2SO4 + 2SO2) forming sodium sulfate and sulfur dioxide.

[BrewBama]

Sulfate and sulfite is why.


Sulfite is an antioxidant(meta, so2), sulfate(s04) is not.

But yeast can turn sulfate into sulfite and excrete the sulfite, so increasing the sulfate in the water may lead to increased sulfite in the final beer. How much depends on the yeast, pitching rate,  fermentation temperature, etc.

This is where I was heading with this question

[Richard]

Sulfate and sulfite is why.


Sulfite is an antioxidant(meta, so2), sulfate(s04) is not.

But yeast can turn sulfate into sulfite and excrete the sulfite, so increasing the sulfate in the water may lead to increased sulfite in the final beer. How much depends on the yeast, pitching rate,  fermentation temperature, etc.

This is where I was heading with this question

I don't think you want to design your process with sulfite content as the target. You should choose the sulfate, yeast, pitch rate, etc. to give the beer you want to drink. If that results in enough residual sulfite to preserve your beer than you can be happy. If it doesn't and you want more you can add more.

[BrewBama]

I think you’re right. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Check my math:

Narziss specifies that keeping potassium levels under 10 ppm is optimal. This corresponds to ~30 ppm of KMeta.

Mash 5 gal = ~18927 ml, sparge 4 gal = ~15141ml

Mash .48mg/18927ml = .00002536. * 1,000,000 = 25.36 ppm

Sparge .08mg/15141ml = .00000528 * 1,000,000 = 5.28 ppm

If my math is right the point is mute: I don’t have a scale that can measure .XX mg.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[hmbrw4life]

I think you’re right. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Check my math:

Narziss specifies that keeping potassium levels under 10 ppm is optimal. This corresponds to ~30 ppm of KMeta.

Mash 5 gal = ~18927 ml, sparge 4 gal = ~15141ml

Mash .48mg/18927ml = .00002536. * 1,000,000 = 25.36 ppm

Sparge .08mg/15141ml = .00000528 * 1,000,000 = 5.28 ppm

If my math is right the point is mute: I don’t have a scale that can measure .XX mg.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Few things.

1. That is for finished beer as to meet the sulfite requirements for labeling.
2. Kmeta levels don't matter, use 10, use 1000000. Oxygenation(for yeast) expels sulfite to sulfate, which makes it a moot point post boil.
3. Lager yeast make more fermentation sulfite than ale.
4. ppm = mg/l. You don't need to go down to the ML. Brewing water in liters, 10mg/liter(if thats your rate).

[BrewBama]

.47-.48 grams and .07-.08 grams makes A LOT more sense than .47-.48 milligrams and .07-.08 milligrams! 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bilsch]

But yeast can turn sulfate into sulfite and excrete the sulfite, so increasing the sulfate in the water may lead to increased sulfite in the final beer. How much depends on the yeast, pitching rate,  fermentation temperature, etc.

But the yeast derived sulfite wont last long unless your cold side handling practices are perfect as it's the first thing to go with any oxygen ingress.

[Richard]

But yeast can turn sulfate into sulfite and excrete the sulfite, so increasing the sulfate in the water may lead to increased sulfite in the final beer. How much depends on the yeast, pitching rate,  fermentation temperature, etc.

But the yeast derived sulfite wont last long unless your cold side handling practices are perfect as it's the first thing to go with any oxygen ingress.

But that is exactly why you want it - not because of its taste or intrinsic value but because of its oxygen scavenging properties. If it goes away as it does its job, that's OK.

[stpug]

Why Kmeta or Na Meta?  Will Gypsum not provide the same sulfur to create the mechanisms to create antioxidive properties?  If not why not?  If so, why not use gypsum vs CaCl to provide the calcium for the mash at the same time adding the sulfur?

SulfITES are antioxidants that we use in the mash, and are used prior to any yeast metabolism that will occur downstream (i.e. hot-side protection from oxidative effects during the mash). Downstream, yeast provide the protection we desire from detrimental oxidative reactions.

[BrewBama]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk