Author Topic: Closed vs under pressure transfer  (Read 2718 times)

Offline Andor

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Closed vs under pressure transfer
« on: April 20, 2017, 02:32:42 PM »
I recently got an ss brewtech brew bucket which will allow me to rack from valve to liquid out of purged keg, I'm calling that a closed transfer correct me if I'm wrong. The brew bucket can be set up to be pushed with 2-2.5 psi. What is the benefit to doing that over using gravity for a closed transfer?

Offline Stevie

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 02:46:53 PM »
Replacing head space with co2 is the biggest benefit. Second is the ability to transfer without needing to lift the fermenter.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 03:01:51 PM »
Decreased time is also a benefit. You are pushing the beer. 2 PSI is like having another 55 inches of beer on top of your beer.
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Offline blatz

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 03:22:08 PM »
what is the difference between 'closed' and 'under pressure' transfer?

I now use CO2 to push beer into a purged, sealed keg with a spunding valve on the gas post.  would this be considered closed or just under pressure?

+1 to stevie and hopfenundmalz comments. 
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Offline goschman

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 03:40:58 PM »
Ha! Seems we are in the same boat.
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Offline Andor

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 05:30:50 PM »
what is the difference between 'closed' and 'under pressure' transfer?

I now use CO2 to push beer into a purged, sealed keg with a spunding valve on the gas post.  would this be considered closed or just under pressure?

+1 to stevie and hopfenundmalz comments.

Sorry if I used wrong terms.  This is new territory for me. Closed to me is minus racking cane into keg post I suppose. Under pressure is using co2 with the "closed transfer". Please correct me if I've got it wrong

Offline juggabrew303

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 07:53:23 PM »
what is the difference between 'closed' and 'under pressure' transfer?

I now use CO2 to push beer into a purged, sealed keg with a spunding valve on the gas post.  would this be considered closed or just under pressure?

+1 to stevie and hopfenundmalz comments.

Sorry if I used wrong terms.  This is new territory for me. Closed to me is minus racking cane into keg post I suppose. Under pressure is using co2 with the "closed transfer". Please correct me if I've got it wrong
To me, I assume closed and transferred under pressure to be the same.  If you're transferring in a closed system with out using pressure to push out the beer, there would be a vacuum on the vessel and you'd have poor drainage.  I have a plastic bubbler and drain from bottom and it will suck the sides in if I didn't pop the air lock off.  Hope I'm answering your question...


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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 08:31:51 PM »
I recently modified my Blichmann conical to include a bulkhead-mounted, Corny gas-in post so that I can add CO2 to the fermenter during the closed transfer to keg. Using my 5 lb CO2 cylinder, its a piece of cake to dial up a trickle of CO2 to keep the blow off from sucking air into the fermenter.

Several years ago, I changed the air-lock on this fermenter to a blow-off tube inserted into a clear tube. So I can anywhere from a fraction of an inch to over a foot of water column pressure inside my fermenter. The side benefit of that change is that it takes a much larger volume change inside my fermenter to cause air to be sucked into the fermenter. As you know, it only takes a teeny volume change for the typical air-lock to suck air. So if you haven't done this, converting to a blow-off tube is a really good thing to do for preventing air ingress to your fermenter headspace.
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Offline macbrews

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 09:00:06 PM »
I have a cask breather that I use for my cask conditioned ales (don't tell CAMRA). I can hook that up to cold crash any of my fermenters to prevent air entrainment. I can also use it to gravity transfer beer into a keg as long as there is a spigot.  Works well.


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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 12:23:35 AM »
Since Paul wants to see a pic of what I was talking about, I've attached a view.



The clear tube is a protective cover for a fluorescent bulb with a 1.5" (I think) PVC cap that is Gooped onto the tube. The blow off tube is regular vinyl tubing and it is plumbed into the rubber stopper with a 90 degree 1/2" PEX fitting.  I've used velcro straps to fasten the tube to the leg of the conical.

It works well enough and was cheap.
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Offline Andor

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 12:59:54 AM »
what is the difference between 'closed' and 'under pressure' transfer?

I now use CO2 to push beer into a purged, sealed keg with a spunding valve on the gas post.  would this be considered closed or just under pressure?

+1 to stevie and hopfenundmalz comments.

Sorry if I used wrong terms.  This is new territory for me. Closed to me is minus racking cane into keg post I suppose. Under pressure is using co2 with the "closed transfer". Please correct me if I've got it wrong
To me, I assume closed and transferred under pressure to be the same.  If you're transferring in a closed system with out using pressure to push out the beer, there would be a vacuum on the vessel and you'd have poor drainage.  I have a plastic bubbler and drain from bottom and it will suck the sides in if I didn't pop the air lock off.  Hope I'm answering your question...


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Ah I see. I was using "closed transfer" incorrectly as I assumed the keg relief would have to be open. I see that is also where co2 pressure come in. Thanks man

Offline narcout

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2017, 12:43:51 AM »
I've always thought of a closed transfer as being where the CO2 in the purged keg flows back into the fermentor.



As opposed to a transfer under pressure, where additional CO2 is being pumped into the fermentor to push beer into the serving keg where it is then vented

It's too close to home
And it's too near the bone

Offline Pricelessbrewing

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2017, 03:27:17 AM »
Since Paul wants to see a pic of what I was talking about, I've attached a view.



The clear tube is a protective cover for a fluorescent bulb with a 1.5" (I think) PVC cap that is Gooped onto the tube. The blow off tube is regular vinyl tubing and it is plumbed into the rubber stopper with a 90 degree 1/2" PEX fitting.  I've used velcro straps to fasten the tube to the leg of the conical.

It works well enough and was cheap.

That is very interesting Martin.

Might have to consider doing this until I get a spunding valve. I ferment in kegs, so hooking a blowoff tube with a tall column would be pretty easy. I mean I could just hook a gas out blow off tube to another kegs IN dip tube and get an immediate blow off tube of several feet of column if desired...

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2017, 07:03:59 PM »
I've always thought of a closed transfer as being where the CO2 in the purged keg flows back into the fermentor.



As opposed to a transfer under pressure, where additional CO2 is being pumped into the fermentor to push beer into the serving keg where it is then vented



Narcout-

I believe you are correct in stating this. I have always had trouble keeping my flow going under a true closed transfer. I think it is because I ferment in glass carboys and my beer flows out my racking cane through a carboy hood instead of having a "drain" valve on the bottom of my fermenter like your brewbucket does.

Offline blatz

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Re: Closed vs under pressure transfer
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2017, 05:19:24 PM »
thanks for explaining Narcout!  now I get it.  I presume flow will start as soon as you hook up the QD to the gas in post (which is attached at the other end to the top of the fermenter)?

martin - dumb question, I don't understand what purpose the tube is serving?  do you fill it with CO2?  how is it different than the other ambient air?
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