Author Topic: High alcohol tolerant yeast  (Read 2020 times)

Offline Visor

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High alcohol tolerant yeast
« on: April 25, 2017, 02:00:30 PM »
  I'm seeking suggestions for a yeast to try on a stout recipe that is supposed to finish out over 12% ABV, preferably a dry yeast. It might be a plus if the resulting beer actually tasted good too.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 02:03:46 PM »
US-05 has the reputation of being able to handle that if the wort is fermentable enough and the yeast is treated properly. I have not gone that high with it, but this is just what I have read on here in the last couple years. may not be the best stout yeast, but will surely get out of the way of all the other ingredients in your recipe, allowing it to taste great
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 02:21:15 PM »
honestly, most yeast strains will have no problem with 12%. You do have to be careful to treat them well and pitch enough highly active cells to start. I've taken Dry English Ale (WLP007) up north of 12% on several occasions with a wort mashed low (148) and some (10%) simple sugar added.

US-05 will have no problem either.

Make sure to warm it up a bit towards the end, especially if you use a British strain. Give it some yeast nutrient in the boil.

if using liquid yeast, make a 1 quart Shaken-Not-Stirred starter when your mashing and it should be at high Krausen when you are ready to pitch.

if using dry, use two packets.

if you are adding simple sugar, which I suggest, add it after the first three days of fermentation, this keeps the gravity a bit lower to start so the yeast have time to build a solid population.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 02:46:41 PM »
I think 2 packs of US-05 will get you there. But for beers in the 10%+ range, I prefer to start with a beer in the 1.060 range, then rack onto the yeast cake for the big boy. Having a fresh, big pitch that has develeloped a bit of alcohol tolerance will rip through even the biggest beer pretty reliably.
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Offline Visor

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 03:05:42 PM »
I think 2 packs of US-05 will get you there. But for beers in the 10%+ range, I prefer to start with a beer in the 1.060 range, then rack onto the yeast cake for the big boy. Having a fresh, big pitch that has develeloped a bit of alcohol tolerance will rip through even the biggest beer pretty reliably.
   Thanks.
   I'm still working on getting my head around what seems to be a contradiction. We are always counseled to "pitch plenty of yeast" for big beers, because what you pitch is only good for 4 or 5 replications/generations, but people regularly use and re-use what essentially is recycled yeast for beer after beer. 
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Offline a10t2

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 03:15:58 PM »
Strains I've personally used for 12+% ABV are Chico, 1272, 1968, and 1318. I think the only one with a direct equivalent dry yeast would be US-05, but I'd be tempted to try Nottingham. Make sure to rehydrate.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 04:04:29 PM »
I think 2 packs of US-05 will get you there. But for beers in the 10%+ range, I prefer to start with a beer in the 1.060 range, then rack onto the yeast cake for the big boy. Having a fresh, big pitch that has develeloped a bit of alcohol tolerance will rip through even the biggest beer pretty reliably.
   Thanks.
   I'm still working on getting my head around what seems to be a contradiction. We are always counseled to "pitch plenty of yeast" for big beers, because what you pitch is only good for 4 or 5 replications/generations, but people regularly use and re-use what essentially is recycled yeast for beer after beer.

the number of generations you can go with a pitch of yeast is dependent on your sanitation and storage methods, and your tolerance for genetic drift. 4-5 repitches is generally pretty safe, assuming good sanitation.

The concern with pitching rates is that you want to control the amount of reproduction the yeast do in your beer because they produce many of their flavor compounds during that reproductive phase. This is all very backyard science-y and not at all really accurate to what's going on but the effect is at least repeatable.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2017, 04:36:14 PM »
I've gone that high with 1968.  As Mort says, warm it up as it finishes.  I've also done side-by-sides with 1968 and US-05 and they perform similarly as far as attenuation.  Side-by-side as well with 1968 and a Notty/Windsor blend.  I really like the Notty/Windsor blend, but I do not like Nottingham alone.

I think the keys are a big pitch of yeast, oxygenate, simple sugar as a portion of your recipe, and letting the fermentation free rise after a couple days.

I've also had good luck with 1084, which I typically use for my imperial stout (1.90 +/-).  The last batch I think I used US-05 since I had it handy.  Again, similar performance although different impacts on flavor.

TL;DR - US-05 or a Nottingham/Windsor blend (one packet of each).
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2017, 04:42:13 PM »
I agree with 1056/S05 working well on big beers. I either pitch a 1/2 gallon starter or , as mentioned, half a yeast cake from a smaller beer. Extra oxygenation and nutrient is a good idea, too.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 04:59:17 PM »
As Jon mentioned, plenty of oxygenation is almost required. I read on here sometime in the last couple of years to actually oxygenate a second time, around 24 hours after pitching to help the yeast out. I tried this method and it did help dry out my 1.095 double nut brown compared to previous efforts with no second oxygenation step
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Offline Visor

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2017, 08:05:08 PM »
   I haven't set up yet with an oxygen bottle, I'm still aerating with a pump & filter. The literature from some of the yeast outfits recommends using servomyces at the end of the boil and Fermaid after several days in the fermenter.
   I usually ferment in Fast Ferment conicals and dump the sediment ball at the end of primary, anywhere from a few days up to a couple weeks for cold fermented lagers, and then dump again at the end of fermentation at bottling time. Which glop of yeast sludge would be the best to save and use for such a beer as I'm pondering? And how long could it realistically be expected to remain viable in sealed jar, in the fridge, with some beer remaining on top of it?
   And thanks again for all the input.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2017, 08:13:34 PM »
From a different post from our old yeast expert, I think you would want the second dump. The first will be full of trub and yeast that are prone to early floculation and sedimentation. This comes from a post he made about harvesting from a primary. He suggested getting all or at least most of that into a couple jars, shaking it all up and letting it start to settle out. His thought were to do this to separate early floccers from the yeast that tends to want to stay in suspension. I would then guess the same would hold true from the fast ferment vessel.

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Offline Visor

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Re: High alcohol tolerant yeast
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2017, 09:12:46 PM »
  Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever used Safebrew BE-256, it used to be called Abbaye?
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