Author Topic: Question about Partial/Full Boils.  (Read 3163 times)

Offline handisbrewery@gmail.com

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Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« on: April 30, 2017, 10:38:21 AM »
Can I take a 5 Gallon Partial Boil kit and do a FULL Boil on it?

If so, how would I go about that? I know most kits tell you to use about 2 Gallons of water, Bring to a certain temp, steep the grains in the bag and hold for 30 to 60 minutes, Then bring to a boil, Take off the stove and Stir in the Syrup, then bring to a boil and do your hop additions. Then, of course, pour on your other 3.5 gallons give or take to cool down and pitch yeast.

Could I just bring up about 6 Gallons of water or even 5.5 Gallons of water for Boil off, Steep my bag for the desired length of time, Then add the syrup in and bring to a boil for the hour and add in hops, Then chill and pitch?

Offline flars

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2017, 10:57:41 AM »
You can do that.  Hop oil isomerization might be a little more efficient resulting in a 5 to 10% increase in IBUs but that may not be noticeable, or objectionable, in the finished beer.  You can also add just enough extract, DME first, at the beginning of the boil for a 1.040 wort to produce a lighter colored beer.  Heating extract which has already been heated in production will add a deeper color to the beer. Add the remainder of the extract with about 15 minutes left in the boil.   When you boil the wort it is not necessary to have small volcanoes erupting throughout the 60 minute boil.  Applying less heat to the boil kettle maintaining a low boil will help to produce a less dark beer.

Start with about 5.5 gallons in the boil kettle until you are sure of the boil off rate with your equipment.

Offline handisbrewery@gmail.com

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2017, 11:57:54 AM »
You can do that.  Hop oil isomerization might be a little more efficient resulting in a 5 to 10% increase in IBUs but that may not be noticeable, or objectionable, in the finished beer.  You can also add just enough extract, DME first, at the beginning of the boil for a 1.040 wort to produce a lighter colored beer.  Heating extract which has already been heated in production will add a deeper color to the beer. Add the remainder of the extract with about 15 minutes left in the boil.   When you boil the wort it is not necessary to have small volcanoes erupting throughout the 60 minute boil.  Applying less heat to the boil kettle maintaining a low boil will help to produce a less dark beer.

Start with about 5.5 gallons in the boil kettle until you are sure of the boil off rate with your equipment.

Thanks so much for the info. I thought it was possible.  What I have come to realise, Not knowing if it is the water I use, or if it was something else. Is that NO Matter what Beer I brew from a Kit, It's REALLY Bitter, I brewed a Blonde Ale which was my last one, and it was so bitter I couldn't hardly drink it.

Now, I've been to a Brewfest few weeks ago and I've tried ales and Stouts, and Wheat Beers and some that was 80 IBU, and they were NOWHERE near as bitter as I expected them to be.

I was told by someone that, when you do the partial boils that the esters or something to that effect won' dilute which results in a highly bitter beer. And every since then, I stopped doing extract beers for awhile cause I couldn't tolerate teh bitteriness.

I'm in the process of saving money (Low Income) to get a Heating Element and such to convert my 15.5 Gallon Keg into an Electric Brew Kettle so I can do full Boils and even BIAB.

What are your Thought on the Partial Boils and Dilution Rates of the esters or hop oils or whatever would cause the extreme bitterness?

Offline flars

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2017, 12:10:55 PM »
Extreme bitterness could be due to tannin extraction from the steeping grains.  Tannin extraction is more related to pH than temperature.  Steeping grains in large volumes of water can increase the likely hood that that grains will not buffer the volume of water to reduce the pH below 6.0.

Another way to produce a very bitter beer is to boil prehopped LME in a kit.  Give us some details on the last beer you brewed that was to bitter to drink.

Offline denny

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2017, 12:47:33 PM »
Thanks so much for the info. I thought it was possible.  What I have come to realise, Not knowing if it is the water I use, or if it was something else. Is that NO Matter what Beer I brew from a Kit, It's REALLY Bitter, I brewed a Blonde Ale which was my last one, and it was so bitter I couldn't hardly drink it.

Now, I've been to a Brewfest few weeks ago and I've tried ales and Stouts, and Wheat Beers and some that was 80 IBU, and they were NOWHERE near as bitter as I expected them to be.

I was told by someone that, when you do the partial boils that the esters or something to that effect won' dilute which results in a highly bitter beer. And every since then, I stopped doing extract beers for awhile cause I couldn't tolerate teh bitteriness.

I'm in the process of saving money (Low Income) to get a Heating Element and such to convert my 15.5 Gallon Keg into an Electric Brew Kettle so I can do full Boils and even BIAB.

What are your Thought on the Partial Boils and Dilution Rates of the esters or hop oils or whatever would cause the extreme bitterness?

OK, first, esters have nothing to do with it here.  Just wanted to clarify that.  Also, hop utilization is related to the gravity of the wort you're boiling.  IOW, the stronger the wort, the less bitterness you extract from the hops.  In a partial boil, the wort is stronger (since you'll dilute it later), so you should get less bitterness, not more.  So, whatever you were tasting, the partial boil didn't make the beer more bitter.
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Offline Rusty Nails

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2017, 01:07:43 PM »
You stated that you brewed a beer you could hardly drink. IMHO that defeats the reason to homebrew. Please post some more info and some one here will help you so you may enjoy your beers. It appears you have issues that a full boil may not help, perhaps the knowledge on this board can pin-point the reason quickly. Info would be ingredients, how much and what hops (and boil times), What grains are you steeping and how long, yeast, and what are you using for water.

Thank you

Ed
Southwest Washington

Offline cdawson

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2017, 09:52:50 AM »
The extract kits from my LHBS have you steep the grains using a small portion of the water (1.5-1.75 gallons). After the steep is done then add more water and bring to a boil after adding extract (still not full volume @ 3.75 gallons). Then chill and top off with water. I too have been noticing a twang or bitterness in the all my recent brews. I was just using soft tap water, I just recently switched to getting RO water and using RO for just about everything in the brew (except maybe a SNS yeast starter). I have the first batch using RO a week out from being bottled and I am hoping to find better results. I also just noticed the end of my auto-siphon has a bunch of fine cracks or scratches in the bottom 3", so I might be picking up something there too. Time to invest in a carboy cap and a SS Racking cane.

Offline Rusty Nails

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2017, 03:13:25 PM »
When I first started, the LHBS made their own kits as you waited. I had to weigh out the hops when brewing. I won a kit from a national supplier recently as a door prize, and the hops were 'pre-measured' with no info on the packs other than the name. It was horrible bitter.
Do you have to weigh your own hops from a kit, or are they pre-measured? Sorry, I haven't done a kit in years. (other than the door prize kit)

Ed
Southwest Washington

Offline cdawson

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2017, 08:06:35 AM »
The 5 gallon kits I use come with 1 oz packages of hops which need to be measured out according to the hop addition schedule on the recipe. This applies to both the kits from NB and LHBS that I have used. I have however seen smaller 1 gallon or Mr. Beer kits that come with the hops pre-measured.

Offline porkchopexp2

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2017, 10:11:41 AM »
After reading this post I have a question.  Could I take a 5 gallon brew kit, and split it in half?  What I mean is since you lose about 1/2 gallon of liquid during the boil, start with 2 independent kettles with 2.75 gallons in each, so as you have a total of 5.5 gallons, and after boiling be left with 5 gallons.  In one kettle you boil your specialty grains and hops, and in the other kettle you boil only the liquid extract.  Therefore, you get the maximum utilization from your hops, since the gravity of the boil won't be to high due to your boiling the extract in a separate kettle.  And you will still achieve the hot break in both kettles. After the required time for the boil, after flame out, and cooling both kettles, combine both kettles in the primary fermenter.  Why not just boil in a kettle large enough to accommodate over 5 gallons??? Because I only have a 5 gallon kettle, I want to experiment, and want to try to squeeze as much out of my hops as I can.

Offline flars

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2017, 11:12:28 AM »
After reading this post I have a question.  Could I take a 5 gallon brew kit, and split it in half?  What I mean is since you lose about 1/2 gallon of liquid during the boil, start with 2 independent kettles with 2.75 gallons in each, so as you have a total of 5.5 gallons, and after boiling be left with 5 gallons.  In one kettle you boil your specialty grains and hops, and in the other kettle you boil only the liquid extract.  Therefore, you get the maximum utilization from your hops, since the gravity of the boil won't be to high due to your boiling the extract in a separate kettle.  And you will still achieve the hot break in both kettles. After the required time for the boil, after flame out, and cooling both kettles, combine both kettles in the primary fermenter.  Why not just boil in a kettle large enough to accommodate over 5 gallons??? Because I only have a 5 gallon kettle, I want to experiment, and want to try to squeeze as much out of my hops as I can.

You can use two kettles.  Don't boil the grains though.  Grains are usually just meant for steeping unless it is a partial mash kit.  Boiling the grains will extract tannins.  It would be better to add extract to both kettles to have a wort of 1.040 SG in each.  Add half the hops to each kettle to optimize hop oil isomerization.  Fifteen minutes before the end of the boil add the remaining extract to both kettles.

Offline cdawson

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2017, 11:16:05 AM »
You can use two kettles.  Don't boil the grains though.  Grains are usually just meant for steeping unless it is a partial mash kit.  Boiling the grains will extract tannins.  It would be better to add extract to both kettles to have a wort of 1.040 SG in each.  Add half the hops to each kettle to optimize hop oil isomerization.  Fifteen minutes before the end of the boil add the remaining extract to both kettles.
[/quote]

+1 and/or just boil to whatever your capacity is and add top off water to your fermenter. In the past I have pre-boiled then chilled top off water to help bring the wort down to pitching temp. 2 kettles and 2 different boils (after steeping the grains) seems like too much work to me and more area for things to go wrong IMO...

Offline handisbrewery@gmail.com

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2017, 03:57:22 AM »
Extreme bitterness could be due to tannin extraction from the steeping grains.  Tannin extraction is more related to pH than temperature.  Steeping grains in large volumes of water can increase the likely hood that that grains will not buffer the volume of water to reduce the pH below 6.0.

Another way to produce a very bitter beer is to boil prehopped LME in a kit.  Give us some details on the last beer you brewed that was to bitter to drink.

Flars, I'm sorry but I can't provide you with any details, This was probably 5 years ago. I brewed a Bock and an Blonde Ale, Both were very bitter.

I know from one person, One of the beers I made, he tasted Salt, At that time I had a Water Softener in, I don't anymore, I didn't taste it probably cause I was used to it. And it was extremely bitter.

Then the blonde ale I brewed, it was very very bitter as well, no water softener this time I do know.

My Normal brew was 2 Gallons of water, Heat it to the temp, steep the speciality graisn for 30 minutes. Then bring to a boil. Pull off stove stir in LME so it wouldn't scorch. Then put on stove again, bring to boil and start putting in hops at the times needed.

Now I do recall that none of the LME I had was previously hopped. It was a Bock Don't remember the rest of the name, and it was a blonde ale I brewed.

Right now, I haven't brewed them yet (Hoping they are still good) is a Germen Oktoberfest and an Oatmeal Stout. Oatmeal stout Kit I got is a All Grain.

Both has been sitting for probably 4 years maybe 5.

Offline handisbrewery@gmail.com

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2017, 03:59:53 AM »
Thanks so much for the info. I thought it was possible.  What I have come to realise, Not knowing if it is the water I use, or if it was something else. Is that NO Matter what Beer I brew from a Kit, It's REALLY Bitter, I brewed a Blonde Ale which was my last one, and it was so bitter I couldn't hardly drink it.

Now, I've been to a Brewfest few weeks ago and I've tried ales and Stouts, and Wheat Beers and some that was 80 IBU, and they were NOWHERE near as bitter as I expected them to be.

I was told by someone that, when you do the partial boils that the esters or something to that effect won' dilute which results in a highly bitter beer. And every since then, I stopped doing extract beers for awhile cause I couldn't tolerate teh bitteriness.

I'm in the process of saving money (Low Income) to get a Heating Element and such to convert my 15.5 Gallon Keg into an Electric Brew Kettle so I can do full Boils and even BIAB.

What are your Thought on the Partial Boils and Dilution Rates of the esters or hop oils or whatever would cause the extreme bitterness?

OK, first, esters have nothing to do with it here.  Just wanted to clarify that.  Also, hop utilization is related to the gravity of the wort you're boiling.  IOW, the stronger the wort, the less bitterness you extract from the hops.  In a partial boil, the wort is stronger (since you'll dilute it later), so you should get less bitterness, not more.  So, whatever you were tasting, the partial boil didn't make the beer more bitter.

Ok, I wasn't sure what it was. I know it was very bitter, and I was told that whatever it was, it wasn't being diluted which was making it bitter.

Offline handisbrewery@gmail.com

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Re: Question about Partial/Full Boils.
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 04:03:33 AM »
You stated that you brewed a beer you could hardly drink. IMHO that defeats the reason to homebrew. Please post some more info and some one here will help you so you may enjoy your beers. It appears you have issues that a full boil may not help, perhaps the knowledge on this board can pin-point the reason quickly. Info would be ingredients, how much and what hops (and boil times), What grains are you steeping and how long, yeast, and what are you using for water.

Thank you

Ed

Rusty, I will provide this on my Next Extract Kit. Unfortunately, this was several years ago I brewed this beer, I don't have any records of it, It was a Kit. I think I kept the paper, but I have NO Idea where it would be.

I'll be keeping better records of what I boil with Ingredients etc in everything. This was just a Kit that was bought for me by the ole lady cause I wanted a brew kit. And at that time I think I was more excited to brew and get things done then the waiting and didn't have the educiation I should've researched more about it and just jumped right in.