Author Topic: Moving to dry yeast exclusively  (Read 5050 times)

Offline erockrph

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2017, 02:41:25 AM »


I primarily use 34/70, US-05 and Belle Saison, plus 71B for mead and D47 for cider. I'll occasionally use S-04 and BRY-97. I also need to do more experimenting with Danstar's London ESB,

If I want to brew with a liquid yeast, I need to plan it out in advance and order onine.

Danstar London ESB is a very reliable yeast.  I use it for most of my stouts and porters.
[/quote]
My real question is whether the London ESB is a suitable replacement for liquid yeast in bitters. S04 doesn't quite cut it for me in those styles as it has a bready/yeast character that is a bit off-putting to me. If there was a dry equivalent of 1469, 1968, or WLP013, then that would cover my English brews for me.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2017, 12:29:46 PM »
London ESB and Windsor yeasts are low attenuators that are intended for use in worts with simple sugars added. Even with their underattenuation in all-malt worts, I like their flavor. I agree with erockrph that S-04 tends to have a bready flavor. 

If Liberty Bell is the replacement for Burton Union, have many brewers tried it?  I'm also curious about the Empire yeast...another low attenuator.
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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2017, 12:37:06 PM »


I primarily use 34/70, US-05 and Belle Saison, plus 71B for mead and D47 for cider. I'll occasionally use S-04 and BRY-97. I also need to do more experimenting with Danstar's London ESB,

If I want to brew with a liquid yeast, I need to plan it out in advance and order onine.

Danstar London ESB is a very reliable yeast.  I use it for most of my stouts and porters.
My real question is whether the London ESB is a suitable replacement for liquid yeast in bitters. S04 doesn't quite cut it for me in those styles as it has a bready/yeast character that is a bit off-putting to me. If there was a dry equivalent of 1469, 1968, or WLP013, then that would cover my English brews for me.
[/quote]

London ESB is apparently one of the Fullers strains (WLP002/1968).  It does not ferment maltriose leaving an all malt beer above like 1.045 OG cloyingly sweet.  So adding sugar (even to lower gravity worts) is a pretty good idea, but that should be your closest dry equivalent.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2017, 02:37:17 PM »
Danstar London ESB is a very reliable yeast.  I use it for most of my stouts and porters.
My real question is whether the London ESB is a suitable replacement for liquid yeast in bitters. S04 doesn't quite cut it for me in those styles as it has a bready/yeast character that is a bit off-putting to me. If there was a dry equivalent of 1469, 1968, or WLP013, then that would cover my English brews for me.
London ESB is apparently one of the Fullers strains (WLP002/1968).  It does not ferment maltriose leaving an all malt beer above like 1.045 OG cloyingly sweet.  So adding sugar (even to lower gravity worts) is a pretty good idea, but that should be your closest dry equivalent.
One thing I've never been happy with using English dry yeast is getting the ester profile I'm looking for. I wonder if that is because the pitching rate is a lot higher than an equivalent pack of liquid yeast, or maybe because yeast growth is different for dry yeast vs liquid.

And I have doubts that London ESB is the equivalent of 1968 if it is really that low of an attenuator. With proper handling, I typically see about 75% attenuation from an all-malt recipe with 1968.
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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2017, 03:30:49 PM »
Danstar London ESB is a very reliable yeast.  I use it for most of my stouts and porters.
My real question is whether the London ESB is a suitable replacement for liquid yeast in bitters. S04 doesn't quite cut it for me in those styles as it has a bready/yeast character that is a bit off-putting to me. If there was a dry equivalent of 1469, 1968, or WLP013, then that would cover my English brews for me.
London ESB is apparently one of the Fullers strains (WLP002/1968).  It does not ferment maltriose leaving an all malt beer above like 1.045 OG cloyingly sweet.  So adding sugar (even to lower gravity worts) is a pretty good idea, but that should be your closest dry equivalent.
One thing I've never been happy with using English dry yeast is getting the ester profile I'm looking for. I wonder if that is because the pitching rate is a lot higher than an equivalent pack of liquid yeast, or maybe because yeast growth is different for dry yeast vs liquid.

And I have doubts that London ESB is the equivalent of 1968 if it is really that low of an attenuator. With proper handling, I typically see about 75% attenuation from an all-malt recipe with 1968.

Of course it is not an exact equivalent but that it is as close as you are going to get from a dry strain.  Fullers has even endorsed it.  IIRC Fullers (along with others) uses mixed strain fermentation (take that with a grain of salt) so if it was pulled from one of the lower attenuating strains factored with mutations from different labs create different strains so while all three strains (WLP002, 1968, London ESB) are from the same brewery they all have different profiles and will all make different beer like Denny pointed out earlier in the thread.  IE I hate the profile 1968 gives, it always seems to throw a ton of green apple and tartness but I love WLP002 which seems to restrain itself a bit even though they are the "equivalent".  And again the dry ESB yeast screams for simple sugar additions. 

As to the not liking profiles, that is very likely due to overpitching the British strains, which seem to do a little better at a slight underpitch.

Offline Phil_M

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2017, 08:35:42 PM »
I've been gone for a few days, but I want to touch more on my prior post.

I've seen the best results just pitching dry yeast straight, no rehydration. I suppose the difference in strains could be the case? Though in my experience S-04 isn't really like any of the liquid British yeasts I've used. It's like it's fruity in the wrong ways.

I won't even comment on US-05 from a strain perspective, as I don't like 1056/WLP001, and haven't used either in years. They're so clean as to be boring. Good for a pseudo lager, but that is IMO.
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Offline Ellismr

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Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2017, 01:09:27 AM »
I agree with earlier comments that there are several strains of dry yeast that make great ales & lagers.  But there are some styles I need liquid yeast for. 

Have you considered washing yeast and keeping a few pints around for brewing those special styles?  It's not too difficult.


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Offline Frankenbrew

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2017, 04:16:15 PM »
 Yeah, once I spring for the liquid yeast, I'll try to get 3 or 4 batches out of it.
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2017, 05:46:41 PM »
This is gonna sound weird, but one of the main reasons I am put off with liquid is that it costs more than dry.  Why?  They don't have to dry it and some say cell count is half of dry.

Because of the cost of maintaining and packaging the liquid yeast.  Dry yeast is much cheaper to manufacture and store.
So why isn't the available homebrew strains dry?  It makes sense financially and for us homebrewers why not make dry packs?

Not that anyone has the answer, unless you do I wanna hear it, I'm just thinking online. 😉
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Offline denny

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2017, 06:49:01 PM »

So why isn't the available homebrew strains dry?  It makes sense financially and for us homebrewers why not make dry packs?

Not that anyone has the answer, unless you do I wanna hear it, I'm just thinking online. 😉
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Because not all strains can be successfully dried as I understand it.
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Offline skyler

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2017, 06:04:51 PM »
I've been gone for a few days, but I want to touch more on my prior post.

I've seen the best results just pitching dry yeast straight, no rehydration. I suppose the difference in strains could be the case? Though in my experience S-04 isn't really like any of the liquid British yeasts I've used. It's like it's fruity in the wrong ways.

I won't even comment on US-05 from a strain perspective, as I don't like 1056/WLP001, and haven't used either in years. They're so clean as to be boring. Good for a pseudo lager, but that is IMO.

Have you tried using S-04 REALLY cool? Like, 56F-60F cool? IME, it is the most temperature-sensitive of all the strains of common dry yeast, and standard ale temperatures of 66F-70F make for horrible "homebrewy" beer, but it does a great job fermented at near-lager temperatures. I usually pitch around 52F, set my fermentation freezer to 52F, and let it rise to ~58F. When I get foamy krausen, I raise the freezer temp to 60F and let it free rise up to ~66F to finish (takes about 2 days at that point). I then let it sit at ambient for a day or two and then crash chill to 32F. IME, this will completely ferment a clean ~1.046ish bitter in about a week.

Offline goschman

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2017, 02:57:25 AM »
I've been gone for a few days, but I want to touch more on my prior post.

I've seen the best results just pitching dry yeast straight, no rehydration. I suppose the difference in strains could be the case? Though in my experience S-04 isn't really like any of the liquid British yeasts I've used. It's like it's fruity in the wrong ways.

I won't even comment on US-05 from a strain perspective, as I don't like 1056/WLP001, and haven't used either in years. They're so clean as to be boring. Good for a pseudo lager, but that is IMO.

Have you tried using S-04 REALLY cool? Like, 56F-60F cool? IME, it is the most temperature-sensitive of all the strains of common dry yeast, and standard ale temperatures of 66F-70F make for horrible "homebrewy" beer, but it does a great job fermented at near-lager temperatures. I usually pitch around 52F, set my fermentation freezer to 52F, and let it rise to ~58F. When I get foamy krausen, I raise the freezer temp to 60F and let it free rise up to ~66F to finish (takes about 2 days at that point). I then let it sit at ambient for a day or two and then crash chill to 32F. IME, this will completely ferment a clean ~1.046ish bitter in about a week.

Pretty much my experience. I don't think I have gone that cold but my notes specifically say to keep it below 66F
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2017, 11:04:29 AM »
Any notes from the gang for Danstar Munich?  I am brewing a watermelon wheat this weekend and would like to hear tribal knowledge on this strain.


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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2017, 01:04:52 PM »
Any notes from the gang for Danstar Munich?  I am brewing a watermelon wheat this weekend and would like to hear tribal knowledge on this strain.

I haven't used it yet but based on TONS of internet searches, it gets extremely mixed reviews, and part of the reason for that is that there is apparently the old regular Munich strain and a newer "Classic" one or some such thing.  In any case, I'd purposely underpitch and hope for the best.
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Offline yso191

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Re: Moving to dry yeast exclusively
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2017, 02:36:33 PM »
So after making the statement that started this thread prepping for my last brew, I am prepping for my next brew and, yes I'm using liquid yeast.  Some people never learn.

But I couldn't find a good dry yeast for a Czech Premium Lager.  That's what I'm going with.  Yeah.
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