Author Topic: When to add Candi syrup?  (Read 1410 times)

Offline yso191

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1785
  • Yakima, WA
    • View Profile
When to add Candi syrup?
« on: May 08, 2017, 09:06:19 PM »
Making my first Belgian Dark Strong.  When is the Candi Syrup typically added to the boil?
Steve
All Hands Brewing
BJCP #D1667

Offline BrewBama

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1486
    • View Profile
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2017, 09:54:53 PM »
I've read to add it to the kettle near the end of the boil and then I've read to add to the fermenter just after high krausen... so it will be interesting to hear what others do.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Huntsville AL

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19440
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2017, 09:56:19 PM »
I add at the beginning of the boil for 2 reasons...first is that Promash takes it onto account for hop calcs, but that hardly matters.  Second is so that I don't forget it later.  I have never found that any of the reasons not to add it early make any difference to me.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2017, 10:01:41 PM »
I usually add it late boil but (like Denny said) sometimes add it early boil, to be sure I don't forget.
Jon H.

Offline yso191

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1785
  • Yakima, WA
    • View Profile
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 12:06:15 AM »
I figured it didn't matter a whole lot.  I ended up adding it with 60 minutes left in the 90 minute boil.
Steve
All Hands Brewing
BJCP #D1667

Offline Visor

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
    • View Profile
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 02:32:15 PM »
   There's a lot to be said for avoiding opportunities to forget stuff [especially past a certain age], yesterday I found a 1 oz package of Santiam that was supposed to be part of the 15 minute boil addition on Saturday. Oh well.
I spent most of my money on beer, tools and guns, the rest I foolishly squandered on stupid stuff!

Offline zwiller

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
    • View Profile
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 05:16:36 PM »
If you ask me, as long as it makes it in there somehow it's good. ;D  I generally I TRY to add first to runnings so it dissolves a bit/no scorch. 

I prefer the lighter styles but have a had pretty good success making my own stuff, darkest I did was the deep amber for a belgian christmas ale and it turned out well: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114837
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline ynotbrusum

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2800
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 05:50:04 PM »
Call me an outlier, but I like late sugar additions in the primary right at or just following high krausen.  I think it gives the yeast a dessert after the main meal.  I have heard that some strains peter out and don't fully consume the longer chain sugars, if they are started on the simple sugars, but that could be old wives tails coming back from years ago.  An adequate starter and pitch will solve any of those issues, but I still do fermenter high krausen adds for honey and candi sugars without any problems, so I think you can't go wrong here.

Maybe it suggests another experiment for this?  Though my bet is that this one is less likely to show a difference than any other that has been done to date.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline zwiller

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
    • View Profile
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 07:22:43 PM »
I think a better debate would be whether a touch of dark malt is needed or if dark syrup by itself will nail BDS flavor profile you are after.   
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19440
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 07:33:40 PM »
I think a better debate would be whether a touch of dark malt is needed or if dark syrup by itself will nail BDS flavor profile you are after.   

I have completely stopped using dark malt in a BDSA in favor of the syrup.  Darkest I go might be a bit of Special B.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline mabrungard

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2377
  • Water matters!
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 07:45:16 PM »
After listening to a Ron Pattinson talk on Scottish beers, its apparent that the various invert sugar syrups can be very useful in brewing for not only color, but flavor too. I've never used invert syrups before, so I'll have to give them a try.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/Brun-Water-464551136933908/?ref=bookmarks

Offline brewcrew7

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 07:48:24 PM »
Call me an outlier, but I like late sugar additions in the primary right at or just following high krausen.

This is what I'll do from now on, especially if I bottle condition. On two consecutive english IPAs (same recipe) with jaggery sugar added before fermentation with Wyeast 1882 (Thames Valley), the yeast crapped out early on me only to reactivate with additional table sugar in the bottle. Same thing happened, to a lesser extent, with the belgian "Wyeast 1214" on ales made with homemade syrup. Granted, each recipe was 15-20% sugar.

Offline nateo

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2214
  • Denver, CO
    • View Profile
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2017, 12:27:19 AM »
I made an Avery Mephistopheles clone years ago, and added the syrup in the fermenter in stages. The beer turned out really well, but attenuation was way higher than expected vs adding during the boil.
In der Kürze liegt die Würze.

Offline ethinson

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
  • Why is the beer always gone?
    • View Profile
    • River Pirate Brewing Co.
Re: When to add Candi syrup?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2017, 11:21:30 PM »
I add at the beginning of the boil for 2 reasons...first is that Promash takes it onto account for hop calcs, but that hardly matters.  Second is so that I don't forget it later.  I have never found that any of the reasons not to add it early make any difference to me.

I'm an extract brewer and I do this with my liquid extract as well.  I steep my specialty grains for color, flavor what have you and then I dissolve my LME in the warm water.  It's plenty warm enough to dissolve it at 150F. Then I bring it to a boil.  Too many times I waited to add it at 190 and scorched the extract on the bottom of my pot. When I made my BDS, I had LME, Dark Candi and powdered dextrose just all went in at once. I don't see any reason to split it up, and especially doing stove top I'm not going to try to pour liquid in at a rolling boil, that's an instant boil over waiting to happen.

After listening to a Ron Pattinson talk on Scottish beers, its apparent that the various invert sugar syrups can be very useful in brewing for not only color, but flavor too. I've never used invert syrups before, so I'll have to give them a try.

This point reminds me of one of our club members, Bill Schneller, who teaches a Beer Styles class through the community college and is a BJCP Master Judge.  His mission in life is to remove the stigma of sugar as an inferior ingredient. Like Pattinson, he's a historian and has looked through 100 year old recipes. He says that for English and Belgian styles you MUST use sugar.  To get crisp dry finish in a 12% Belgian strong you don't have a choice.  I don't brew English styles but I've noticed it for sure in my Belgian beers.  Both candi syrup and even just plain dextrose.

 
SE Portland - AKA Beervana
Captain and Chief Deck Swabber - River Pirate Brewing Co.
Certified BJCP Beer Judge
2015 Oregon Brew Crew Member of the Year