Author Topic: I can make some delicious wort  (Read 2176 times)

Offline tommymorris

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I can make some delicious wort
« on: May 12, 2017, 02:26:28 AM »
It's the fermented beer that sometimes escapes me.

In other words, I F-up the fermentation from time to time. Like 2 batches in a row with diacetyl.

Offline dls5492

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2017, 02:29:07 PM »
A simple fix for the diacetyl is to do a diacetyl rest. When fermentation starts slowing down, raise the temperature a few degrees (to 62-68 degrees, depending on your fermentation temperature). The yeast will become more active and be able to clean it up. 2 or 3 days at this temperature should help.
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Offline denny

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2017, 02:46:57 PM »
A simple fix for the diacetyl is to do a diacetyl rest. When fermentation starts slowing down, raise the temperature a few degrees (to 62-68 degrees, depending on your fermentation temperature). The yeast will become more active and be able to clean it up. 2 or 3 days at this temperature should help.

What if you're already fermenting at that temp?  While your advice is good for one particluar situation, that's not answer.  If you ket your fermentation go longer it will have the same affect.  Also, diacetyl can be cause by contamination, not just incomplete fermentation.
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 04:28:44 PM »
A simple fix for the diacetyl is to do a diacetyl rest. When fermentation starts slowing down, raise the temperature a few degrees (to 62-68 degrees, depending on your fermentation temperature). The yeast will become more active and be able to clean it up. 2 or 3 days at this temperature should help.

What if you're already fermenting at that temp?  While your advice is good for one particluar situation, that's not answer.  If you ket your fermentation go longer it will have the same affect.  Also, diacetyl can be cause by contamination, not just incomplete fermentation.
I am still pondering the cause. I think I will soak my fermenters and transfer hose in a strong bleach solution just in case. I use starsan normally but maybe using a different sanitizer once will help.

Both were ales (Kolsch and Blonde). Both had reasonably quick forming krausen so I don't think I under pitched and both were fermented in the 60's. Both were in the fermenter 10 days total (4-6 days after fermentation visibly ended).

Offline brewinhard

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 06:19:13 PM »
A simple fix for the diacetyl is to do a diacetyl rest. When fermentation starts slowing down, raise the temperature a few degrees (to 62-68 degrees, depending on your fermentation temperature). The yeast will become more active and be able to clean it up. 2 or 3 days at this temperature should help.

What if you're already fermenting at that temp?  While your advice is good for one particluar situation, that's not answer.  If you ket your fermentation go longer it will have the same affect.  Also, diacetyl can be cause by contamination, not just incomplete fermentation.
I am still pondering the cause. I think I will soak my fermenters and transfer hose in a strong bleach solution just in case. I use starsan normally but maybe using a different sanitizer once will help.

Both were ales (Kolsch and Blonde). Both had reasonably quick forming krausen so I don't think I under pitched and both were fermented in the 60's. Both were in the fermenter 10 days total (4-6 days after fermentation visibly ended).

What yeast strain?  I have worked with WY 2565 kolsch before and never experienced any diacetyl production with a proper pitch and ferment temps between 57-62F.

Offline bayareabrewer

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 06:21:36 PM »
what's your oxygenation routine?

Offline a10t2

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 06:29:49 PM »
I am still pondering the cause. I think I will soak my fermenters and transfer hose in a strong bleach solution just in case. I use starsan normally but maybe using a different sanitizer once will help.

If you're using StarSan as your primary, it's definitely a good idea to switch it up every few batches. DBSA is broad-spectrum against bacteria but there are Brett strains that can tolerate ~2 pH for ~30 min, for example. I'd suggest an iodophor instead of bleach though, just because of the odor issue.
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 06:48:41 PM »
I used WLP029.

I don't add oxygen. Just splashing from pouring into fermenter from fermenter.

I have been wanting to try Iodophor but the LHBS only sells Starsan. I wonder if Iodophor is available at other types of stores. I know my grandparents used something very similar at their dairy for years.

Offline BrewBama

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I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 08:22:47 PM »
How about that new stuff I see in the advertisement of Zymurgy? (San Step NS) ...or is it only effective against the same stuff as Star San?


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« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 08:24:24 PM by BrewBama »
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Offline denny

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 08:59:00 PM »
I used WLP029.

I don't add oxygen. Just splashing from pouring into fermenter from fermenter.

I have been wanting to try Iodophor but the LHBS only sells Starsan. I wonder if Iodophor is available at other types of stores. I know my grandparents used something very similar at their dairy for years.

Yes and no...you can get iodophor from other sources, like dairy supply places.  But it isn't the same.  I don't have the info at hand, but if you like I can get someone from BTF Iodophor to explain the differences.  That doesn't mean the dairy stuff won't work...just that the stuff designed for brewing works a lot better!
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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 11:23:06 AM »
Weird that 029 is throwing diacetyl for you. Are you picking the diacetyl up straight from the fermentor or after racking? Oxidizing after racking or packaging is a huge factor in diacetyl in finished beers.

Swing by the brewery and I'll give you a pint of peracedic acid. In exchange for some diacetyl free homerew. ;)

Offline Steve L

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2017, 01:34:35 PM »
I had issues with diacetyl that had me flummoxed. About 2-3 weeks after bottling, diacetyl showed up. All was good and tasted fine til then. Turns out after trial and error on several batches, it was oxidation when I transferred to secondary and/or bottling bucket. Thanks to a few brewers in the AHA forum who are way smarter than me, I found an article that discussed the formation of acetolactic acid due to yeast issues that carried over into the bottle. Oxidation reacts with it and forms diacetyl a couple of weeks after bottling. I began purging my transfer vessels with Co2 and diacetyl disappeared.

https://www.morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue1.2/fix.html
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Offline tommymorris

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I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2017, 11:22:34 PM »
Weird that 029 is throwing diacetyl for you. Are you picking the diacetyl up straight from the fermentor or after racking? Oxidizing after racking or packaging is a huge factor in diacetyl in finished beers.

Swing by the brewery and I'll give you a pint of peracedic acid. In exchange for some diacetyl free homerew. ;)
I don't currently have any diacetyl free home brew :) But, I think my Kölsch should be recovered in the next few days.

The blonde picked up a hint of diacetyl very late. That keg is kicked now. I bottled 2 bottles about 1 month ago. I tasted one of the bottles a few days ago and it had diacetyl bad. The last pint of if that beer from the keg had just a hint when it warmed up.

The Kölsch had a hint when I kegged it. I thought it would go away. I often get a caramel taste at packaging which goes away after a few days of conditioning. I thought that was what I had. But after 7-10 days in the keg this beer has a much more pronounced problem. I am hoping the krausening fixed it. I will be placing the keg back in the fridge tomorrow morning.  My recipe was 100% Pils with Magnum at bitter and Crystal at 5 min. Yours is far more crisp than mine. I am hoping the krausening will get me there.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 03:08:25 AM by alestateyall »

Offline a10t2

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2017, 11:43:12 PM »
Worsening over time, both within a batch and batch-to-batch, makes me suspect contamination first.

Do you use a heat exchanger?
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: I can make some delicious wort
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 03:07:48 AM »
Worsening over time, both within a batch and batch-to-batch, makes me suspect contamination first.

Do you use a heat exchanger?
I place a copper chiller in the wort but I don't run the wort through anything.