Author Topic: Fast Lager method?  (Read 2764 times)

Offline bbt95762

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Fast Lager method?
« on: June 01, 2017, 04:55:08 PM »
Hi,
I was listening the 'The Jamil Show' the other day.  He mentioned a 'fast lager' method which he uses successfully in competitions etc.  I forget the name he used for it.  I've looked, but can not find any references to this method - anyone on line know what the method is? where I can read up on it?

The method that i understand
1. start at 44*F, oxygenate and pitch
2. let rise to 50*F, hold and ferment for ~21 days (may be less, done when activity ceases)
3. rise to 68*F to clean up the diacetyl - about 3 days
4. ?then crash to 32*F for how long? or is this part necessary?

I've been brewing Ales for a long time, now have a ferment fridge, so want to brew some lagers.

Thanks,
Brian.

Offline txk54

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2017, 05:00:50 PM »
Check out the fast lager write up here:

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

Offline denny

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 05:02:30 PM »
I've been doing that for years.  I wrote about it in "Homebrew All Stars", quoting Mike McDoles method. I also wrote a BYO article (Jan./Feb. 2017) about it a few months back detailing several methods for it.  Bottom line is that it works.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2017, 05:49:37 PM »
I can't help but chuckle when I see this, for a number of reasons.

I can ferment at 45F, and have a fully carbed ready to drink lager in 7 days.

Pitch at 2.5

Ferment until 1% extract remains

Keg with spunding valve.

Day 7 lager at FG and carbonated to 2.5vols.

Game, set match. Doesn't get much faster than that!
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2017, 06:19:54 PM »
And no diacetyl issues? Do you do a diacetyl rest at any point? When you say pitch at 2.5, is that a pitching rate, a pressure, temperature?

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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2017, 06:22:05 PM »
And no diacetyl issues? Do you do a diacetyl rest at any point? When you say pitch at 2.5, is that a pitching rate, a pressure, temperature?

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I have been following the same method (more or less) as Beerery, and seeing similar results. No issues with diacetyl whatsoever especially when pitched cold (44-45F) with enough yeast to get a healthy ferment underway.

I am not quite at 7 days, but easily have kegs packaged and ready to begin lagering typically by day 10 at the latest.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2017, 06:48:22 PM »
And no diacetyl issues? Do you do a diacetyl rest at any point? When you say pitch at 2.5, is that a pitching rate, a pressure, temperature?

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Nope, none.

Sorry Pitch rate..
 2.5 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.
Herr, wirf Hirn vom Himmel!
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Offline bbt95762

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2017, 09:40:42 PM »
wow, that's amazing 7-10d for lager, I'll need to give that a try

Offline Wilbur

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2017, 01:59:07 PM »
And no diacetyl issues? Do you do a diacetyl rest at any point? When you say pitch at 2.5, is that a pitching rate, a pressure, temperature?

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Nope, none.

Sorry Pitch rate..
 2.5 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

Any specific yeasts that work well with this? Or just any strain you prefer?

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2017, 02:03:10 PM »
And no diacetyl issues? Do you do a diacetyl rest at any point? When you say pitch at 2.5, is that a pitching rate, a pressure, temperature?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Nope, none.

Sorry Pitch rate..
 2.5 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

Any specific yeasts that work well with this? Or just any strain you prefer?

2206 was my house yeast for quite some time. I ordered a direct pitch of 835 a few months ago and have been playing with that.  Seems to work pretty good as well.  I try and use sulfury strains as sulfur is a natural antioxidant and helps on the cold side.


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Herr, wirf Hirn vom Himmel!
(Oder Steine, Hauptsache er trifft.)
Check us out at www.lowoxygenbrewing.com (Now with forums)
"Consistently successful brewers are invariably the ones who operate low oxygen systems." -George Fix Circa 1999
Taplist and Fermentation Cellar
"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change"

Offline coolman26

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2017, 03:20:23 PM »
And no diacetyl issues? Do you do a diacetyl rest at any point? When you say pitch at 2.5, is that a pitching rate, a pressure, temperature?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Nope, none.

Sorry Pitch rate..
 2.5 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

Any specific yeasts that work well with this? Or just any strain you prefer?

2206 was my house yeast for quite some time. I ordered a direct pitch of 835 a few months ago and have been playing with that.  Seems to work pretty good as well.  I try and use sulfury strains as sulfur is a natural antioxidant and helps on the cold side.


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Hmm....did not know that.


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Jeff B

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2017, 03:23:33 PM »
And no diacetyl issues? Do you do a diacetyl rest at any point? When you say pitch at 2.5, is that a pitching rate, a pressure, temperature?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Nope, none.

Sorry Pitch rate..
 2.5 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

Any specific yeasts that work well with this? Or just any strain you prefer?

2206 was my house yeast for quite some time. I ordered a direct pitch of 835 a few months ago and have been playing with that.  Seems to work pretty good as well.  I try and use sulfury strains as sulfur is a natural antioxidant and helps on the cold side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hmm....did not know that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/cold-fermentation-and-spunding-results/
Herr, wirf Hirn vom Himmel!
(Oder Steine, Hauptsache er trifft.)
Check us out at www.lowoxygenbrewing.com (Now with forums)
"Consistently successful brewers are invariably the ones who operate low oxygen systems." -George Fix Circa 1999
Taplist and Fermentation Cellar
"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change"

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2017, 04:32:03 PM »
I'll vouch for how good 2206 works in low O2 fashion. Best lagers I've ever made, easily.
Jon H.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2017, 06:32:45 PM »
I'll vouch for how good 2206 works in low O2 fashion. Best lagers I've ever made, easily.

+2 to this. My last run of spunded lagers (helles export, helles, dunkel, and pils) were some of the most flavorful lagers made to date.

Offline stpug

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Re: Fast Lager method?
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2017, 09:05:09 PM »
I am in agreement that lagers can/are produced in as few, or fewer, days than ales.  A typical, average-gravity lager for me is fermented for 5-6 days and then spunded for 3 days to full carbonation, and then into the kegerator it goes.  There is certainly some sedimenting time after this, but is generally to the hazy phase after about 2 days.  Lagering (i.e. cold aging) takes place while the keg is tapped, and while there is definitely some improvement in the first week (i.e. melding of flavors and dropping of flavor-containing compounds), after that it's minimal.  While I also include low oxygen brewing processes in every beer I make, it shouldn't make a difference for the timeline if it's low oxy or not.

Ales for me ferment ~7 days, then are keg primed for ~10days, and then into the kegerator they go.  After that, there's still the same sedimenting and melding phase time.