Author Topic: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager  (Read 1617 times)

Offline yso191

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Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« on: June 02, 2017, 02:13:55 PM »
Just a quick question: What ru'n Water profile should I use for a 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager?

I know it requires very soft water.  I'll be starting with RO as always.
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Offline goschman

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2017, 02:47:21 PM »
How about the "PseudoBohPils"?
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Offline yso191

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2017, 02:57:26 PM »
How about the "PseudoBohPils"?

The fact that you formed that in a question has me wondering if you are less than certain.
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2017, 03:02:15 PM »
In spite of "Boh" bringing an entirely different beer to mind, I used the pseudobohpils profile when I brewed a PU clone. Turned out great.
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Offline goschman

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017, 03:17:12 PM »
How about the "PseudoBohPils"?

The fact that you formed that in a question has me wondering if you are less than certain.

Never brewed that style but that's what I would use. Most of my feedback gets disregarded so a "?" helps...
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

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Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017, 04:39:10 PM »
The pseudo boh pils profile was developed to provide modest chloride and sulfate while keeping the calcium level low. Since lager yeast can be adversely affected by elevated calcium content, this profile is advisable for delicate lagers like boh pils.

This profile does produce a problem in the mash. The low calcium level may not be sufficient to knock out the wort's oxalate content. To help avoid this problem, I recommend that you plan on adding all your salts calculated for the entire batch (mash + sparge) water to the mash. That way, the mash's calcium content is temporarily high and is diluted back down to minimal levels when the low-mineral sparging water is added.

I've used this profile in many lagers and it produces a nice clean finish that allows the malt flavor to come through.
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Offline Stevie

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Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2017, 04:59:16 PM »
Adding all of the salts to the mash also helps reduce the amount of acid needed to bring the pH down. I use this all the time. Not adverse to acid additions, just adverse to more stuff to think or forget about.

Offline yso191

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2017, 02:50:18 PM »
Thanks to all.  I appreciate it!
Steve
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Offline Philbrew

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 04:41:21 PM »
The pseudo boh pils profile was developed to provide modest chloride and sulfate while keeping the calcium level low. Since lager yeast can be adversely affected by elevated calcium content, this profile is advisable for delicate lagers like boh pils.

This profile does produce a problem in the mash. The low calcium level may not be sufficient to knock out the wort's oxalate content. To help avoid this problem, I recommend that you plan on adding all your salts calculated for the entire batch (mash + sparge) water to the mash. That way, the mash's calcium content is temporarily high and is diluted back down to minimal levels when the low-mineral sparging water is added.

I've used this profile in many lagers and it produces a nice clean finish that allows the malt flavor to come through.
What would be the minimum CA in the mash to deal with the oxalate?
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Offline swampale

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2017, 02:24:24 PM »
I am new to Bru'n Water. I have only 5 brews so far with RO/water salts. So far so good. I have been using " yellow balanced " with blonde ales and one Pilsner. Seems fine to me. What will the difference be using pseudo boh pils vs yellow balanced as in the taste of my beer?

Offline 69franx

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2017, 06:23:13 PM »
I am new to Bru'n Water. I have only 5 brews so far with RO/water salts. So far so good. I have been using " yellow balanced " with blonde ales and one Pilsner. Seems fine to me. What will the difference be using pseudo boh pils vs yellow balanced as in the taste of my beer?
Think the best answer is in Martin's above response about the pseudobohpils profile: clean fermentation and will allow the malt to shine through
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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2017, 09:12:54 PM »
At NHC 2017, Annie Johnson said that her PU recipe shot for a 4.7 to 4.9 mash pH.  A lot lower than most of us have done in the past.  Just FWIW...and YMMV, of course.  She said she took RO water and cut it about half with distilled water (if my foggy brain got that right on Saturday morning!)
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2017, 02:42:17 PM »
At NHC 2017, Annie Johnson said that her PU recipe shot for a 4.7 to 4.9 mash pH.

I had to triple take that... Why would you do that?

That would render enzymatic activity nearly useless (alpha for sure), beta seriously slow. You would have a crap effciency, and a poor fermentation. Is that thought because you want to the beer to finisher higher? If thats the case you could just mash super high, and leave the beer to finish at 1.015 or so. But its not the same beer. PU is sweet, sweet like unfermented sugar sweet, not high dextrines blah (to me thats neither dry or sweet, just blah..).

To get the proper PU mouthfeel, mash for a 1.010 beer, and halt fermentation by chilling with about 4-5 points remaining. Simple as that! You get the syrupy sweetness and if you pitched low cell counts, probably most of the diacetyl.

Here are the lab results of PU:

OG 1.047
FG 1.014
RDF 58.5
ABV 4.41
IBU 31.6
Color 6.2
pH 4.66

Diacetyl 113ppb (taste threshold 40ppb)

PU is just a showcase of what poorly fermented beer tastes like when you are good at it! That being said, I'll drink it.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 02:46:38 PM by The Beerery »
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Offline toby

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2017, 03:06:32 PM »
At NHC 2017, Annie Johnson said that her PU recipe shot for a 4.7 to 4.9 mash pH.

I had to triple take that... Why would you do that?

To be clear, that's what she shoots for because those are the numbers she learned PU gets.

Quote
That would render enzymatic activity nearly useless (alpha for sure), beta seriously slow. You would have a crap effciency, and a poor fermentation. Is that thought because you want to the beer to finisher higher? If thats the case you could just mash super high, and leave the beer to finish at 1.015 or so. But its not the same beer. PU is sweet, sweet like unfermented sugar sweet, not high dextrines blah (to me thats neither dry or sweet, just blah..).

To get the proper PU mouthfeel, mash for a 1.010 beer, and halt fermentation by chilling with about 4-5 points remaining. Simple as that! You get the syrupy sweetness and if you pitched low cell counts, probably most of the diacetyl.

Here are the lab results of PU:

OG 1.047
FG 1.014
RDF 58.5
ABV 4.41
IBU 31.6
Color 6.2
pH 4.66

Diacetyl 113ppb (taste threshold 40ppb)

PU is just a showcase of what poorly fermented beer tastes like when you are good at it! That being said, I'll drink it.

After hearing her description of the PU process, I started to wonder if the diacetyl was a pedio byproduct. They didn't sound that concerned about air contact in the cooling process. So, who knows what gets in there.

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Re: Bru'n Water profile for 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2017, 09:55:58 PM »
Just reporting what I heard.  Of course she triple decocts, if that does anything enzymatically...not saying that it would, as far as I know. 

As to the pedio, that would not be outside the realm of possibility, based on the condition of the sweatshirt on the guy stirring the open batch on the one slide she showed!
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