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Author Topic: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze  (Read 5949 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2017, 06:32:45 am »
That comment was directed at resellers, not the maltsters. Too many homebrew shops don't provide the specs on the grain they sell.

Just look at if you wanted to go full beer geek and actually use a data sheet. But a full sack of Weyermann, get all the details. Buy 10 pounds from the LHBS? Good luck getting that info...
I agree with that!
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jrdatta

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2017, 07:03:28 am »
Whirlfloc will help, but you need to find the right dosing rates.  For me it is usually like 1/2-3/4 of a tablet per 5 gallons.  Also if you want a back end fining biofine has worked well for me, especially for English styles and cask conditioning.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2017, 08:41:16 am »
Are you specifically trying to avoid fining agents and fix this from a process standpoint? If not, then give polyclar a shot.

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narvin

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2017, 08:49:42 am »
Any beer benefits from cold conditioning time... the colder, the better (within reason).  Without that, it is hard to coagulate and drop out chill haze.

I'd also suggest you try kettle finings again and try to separate the hot break completely from the fermenter.  Chill haze is caused by excess proteins and polyphenols in the beer.  Brewtan B is another thing to play around with, since tannins (polyphenols) help to precipitate proteins as well.

http://byo.com/malt/item/486-conquer-chill-haze

The Beerery

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2017, 08:56:09 am »
Any beer benefits from cold conditioning time... the colder, the better (within reason).  Without that, it is hard to coagulate and drop out chill haze.

I'd also suggest you try kettle finings again and try to separate the hot break completely from the fermenter.  Chill haze is caused by excess proteins and polyphenols in the beer.  Brewtan B is another thing to play around with, since tannins (polyphenols) help to precipitate proteins as well.

http://byo.com/malt/item/486-conquer-chill-haze

For sure!

I have a blog post on it as well.
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/trub-seperation-why-and-how/

Offline Phil_M

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2017, 06:31:30 pm »
Are you specifically trying to avoid fining agents and fix this from a process standpoint? If not, then give polyclar a shot.

That's the idea. If I can fix my issues with process improvements I find that preferable to having another ingredient to stock.

Any beer benefits from cold conditioning time... the colder, the better (within reason).  Without that, it is hard to coagulate and drop out chill haze.

I'd also suggest you try kettle finings again and try to separate the hot break completely from the fermenter.  Chill haze is caused by excess proteins and polyphenols in the beer.  Brewtan B is another thing to play around with, since tannins (polyphenols) help to precipitate proteins as well.

http://byo.com/malt/item/486-conquer-chill-haze

Cold crashing isn't always an option, (cask) but I think I'll try your advice on kettle finings/hot break separation. This seems the lowest hanging fruit to get out of the way first.

If I ever drop the cash on my idea for a "yorkshire square" style fermentor a double drop is part of the plan. (Temporary fermentation vessel to allow all the cold break to settle out, prior to transferring to the primary vessel.)
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2017, 08:28:06 pm »

If I ever drop the cash on my idea for a "yorkshire square" style fermentor a double drop is part of the plan. (Temporary fermentation vessel to allow all the cold break to settle out, prior to transferring to the primary vessel.)
Sh*t...why didn't I think of that!
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Offline zwiller

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2017, 08:40:12 am »
Any beer benefits from cold conditioning time... the colder, the better (within reason).  Without that, it is hard to coagulate and drop out chill haze.

I'd also suggest you try kettle finings again and try to separate the hot break completely from the fermenter.  Chill haze is caused by excess proteins and polyphenols in the beer.  Brewtan B is another thing to play around with, since tannins (polyphenols) help to precipitate proteins as well.

http://byo.com/malt/item/486-conquer-chill-haze
I personally think BTB is for adjunct swill and not all malt beers.  I'd try polyclar/PVPP (with whirlfloc) in the boil. 10m to KO.  Whilfloc+polyclar=polyclar brewbrite.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktpKsLH62nU  I predict you will be shocked. 
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Offline stpug

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2017, 08:44:50 am »
Any beer benefits from cold conditioning time... the colder, the better (within reason).  Without that, it is hard to coagulate and drop out chill haze.

I'd also suggest you try kettle finings again and try to separate the hot break completely from the fermenter.  Chill haze is caused by excess proteins and polyphenols in the beer.  Brewtan B is another thing to play around with, since tannins (polyphenols) help to precipitate proteins as well.

http://byo.com/malt/item/486-conquer-chill-haze
I personally think BTB is for adjunct swill and not all malt beers.  I'd try polyclar/PVPP (with whirlfloc) in the boil. 10m to KO.  Whilfloc+polyclar=polyclar brewbrite.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktpKsLH62nU  I predict you will be shocked.

Dosage: 10-25 g/hl

Do you know the approximate ratio of whirlfloc to PVPP in Polyclar BrewBrite? 50/50?

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2017, 09:08:30 am »
Frank P.

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Offline blatz

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2017, 09:16:20 am »
phil

I have generally crystal clear beers across the board with no fining or filtering;  I made a strong ale early last year, all MO with some DH carafa for color and despite a year plus in the keg, AND gelatin, its still murky.

I think its the MO.

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Offline stpug

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2017, 09:22:50 am »
According to http://www.generalfiltration.com/assets/uploads/Polyclar_Brewbrite.pdf PVPP = 75%.

Very good, thank you!  I think I'll mix some up for a future batch since I've got both parts.

2-5 grams Brewbrite per 5.25 gallons
26% Whirlfloc
74% PVPP/Polyclar
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 09:27:26 am by stpug »

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2017, 01:16:08 pm »

If I ever drop the cash on my idea for a "yorkshire square" style fermentor a double drop is part of the plan. (Temporary fermentation vessel to allow all the cold break to settle out, prior to transferring to the primary vessel.)
Sh*t...why didn't I think of that!

The yeast are added to the first vessel, then the beer is dropped 12-18 hours later, and that gives the yeast more O2, along with the true being left behind.

Brakspear still does this. Fullers used to, and the have one set of those double drop tanks on display. I was surprised to see the bottom vessel was copper with copper attemperators.
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2017, 06:34:54 pm »
British brewing certainly isn't low O2. Just look at the strike water and grist just pouring into the mash tun in the Michael Jackson video here:

http://www.merchantduvin.com/brew-samuel-smith.php

Not to mention all the copper, and that the beer isn't racked to cask in a closed transfer. For those who are averse to low oxygen methods, I think there is a LOT to be learned, and easily implemented, from the Brits.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2017, 08:59:14 pm »
British brewing certainly isn't low O2. Just look at the strike water and grist just pouring into the mash tun in the Michael Jackson video here:

http://www.merchantduvin.com/brew-samuel-smith.php

Not to mention all the copper, and that the beer isn't racked to cask in a closed transfer. For those who are averse to low oxygen methods, I think there is a LOT to be learned, and easily implemented, from the Brits.

Oh yes, cask ale matures with the air in the cask. Cask ale lovers will debate if the ale is best on day 2 or 3, but not after 3.

Many British Breweries are Victorian in technology, but not all. Many German breweries are modern technological wonders, but not all.
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!