[Stevie]

Apparently the purpose is to sell me women's swim ware and $29 watches.  If the ads stay, I will leave and will not renew my wife's and my memberships.

[dbeechum]

Apparently the purpose is to sell me women's swim ware and $29 watches.  If the ads stay, I will leave and will not renew my wife's and my memberships.

Hmm, if you're seeing those sorts of ads, then those need to be reported to Duncan (duncan@brewersassociation.org). I usually see things like whiskey barrels and brew guru offers.

[Stevie]

This is within Tapatalk. They are way less "targeted."

Want to see pics of singles?

[weazletoe]

I think we all just need to take a step back, take a few deep breaths, and lovigly gaze into our carboys eyes whilst listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQY2z6aALD4

We can all reconvene when calmer heads and hearts prevail.

[dbeechum]

Want to see pics of singles?

I'm fairly certain my wife wouldn't approve.

Yeah, let me reach out and check, cause that's uncool.

[dbeechum]

Duncan just let me know the web team is aware of the ad issue. They think Tapatalk changed some settings and so they're finding a fix for it.

[udubdawg]

The average level of expertise in homebrewing seems to have declined.  I assume this is due to A) the AHA casting a wider net and getting more people who aren't necessarily as "Beer Is Life" as some of us old guard, and B) many many people who are good at this have gone pro.  A) isn't a bad thing, but it does change the makeup of the hobby. Way more people are casual about this now.   B) has lead to even more great availability of commercial beer, which just reinforces the casual nature many homebrewers already have.

Your point A is a little flipped from what seems to be in the marketing and demo data that's being pulled. It's not that the AHA is casting a wider net and getting shallower interest - it's that the general interest pool is shallower. The data all points to plenty of people enjoying the idea of making beer, but fewer, particularly younger, folks wanting to make homebrewing their "lifestyle" ala us older brewers.

But then again, this is the same war fought over a wider and more visible battle ground than before. I can troll back through club newsletters from the 1970's and 80's and see the same *grr argh* "not taking this serious enough" angst including the classic - if you're brewing extract, you're not a real brewer. Thing is, this hobby has always been a majority extract brewers even in today's high gear/information availability age.

I don't know. I have fun with this hobby even if sometimes the personalities are a bit much. I prefer to operate from a guiding principle of kindness, which is not everyone's north star as evidenced by all the hackles being raised around here.

Seriously, let's practice the Wheaton Law (link) and not be proof of John Gabriel's Greater Internet f##kwad Theory (link)

Step back, take a deep breath, blah, blah, blah... ffs

I'm not sure how to take the last part, but I'm not going to spend any more time worrying about it.

A little more clarification on how point A) is "flipped" would probably help too.  We are getting people that weren't interested in homebrewing before, right?  More women, more young people, more non-engineers?  That's good, unless you're refuting that.  But people aren't spending as much on "stuff" at the stores, and not spending as long in the hobby, correct?  Meanwhile a whole lot of people have gone pro. Also good (for them at least). I've never tried to make people less enthusiastic than myself unwelcome in this hobby and in fact as stated have actively done the opposite.  But I still prefer to spend my time with my own peeps - people I can relate to, have things in common with, have known for years.  My brewing family, basically.

...and a great many have disappeared.

[case thrower]

Back in January I made the suggestion that what is needed is MULTIPLE FORUMS!  Look on the AHA main page under Let's Brew.  There are tabs for Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced.  Structure the forum the same way.  A couple of general categories under each heading.

Will it work?  I don't know, but given that the levels of animosity seem to be growing and have been for quite a while (at least they are from where I'm sitting), I don't think it would hurt to look at the options.

[AmandaK]

Phil, I couldn't agree more with you.

Right now we don't seem to have that same level of expertise, but it may come back around. The nice thing I have always enjoyed about this forum has been the courtesy.  Let's not lose that.

The thing is, every time I've thought - "hey, I should go check and see what's going on with the AHA Forum" the top few threads are mostly bickering for no productive reason or threads simply discussing the lack of civility.

The AHA Forum used to be a place were I could learn something. It used to be a place where we all respected each other. Where I wouldn't get PMs telling me that I was doing things wrong. From my stop ins over the past year or so, it hasn't changed much from when I left. Which is a shame.

[dmtaylor]

Ugh..... I think I've finally got to just say it, in as few words as possible............

Keith, Denny, I love you guys, but you know, you ain't perfect.

Derek, Bryan, I love you guys, but you know, you ain't perfect.

Me, I love myself, but I know I ain't perfect.

The rest of ya's, you're all alright, I love you all, too.

Those of us who are still left here have had to deal with a lot of crap.  We need to put an end to the crap.  I'll do my part if you'll all do yours.  Perhaps the best thing to do is to never ever talk about crap ever again.  Let's friggin talk about beer, dammit.

*group hug*

[hopfenundmalz]

Maybe an advanced brewing techniques forum would be beneficial (hey that was petty much unintentional, old timers will get it).

I'm glad to see some valued members checking in now and then.

[dbeechum]

I'm not sure how to take the last part, but I'm not going to spend any more time worrying about it.

A little more clarification on how point A) is "flipped" would probably help too.  We are getting people that weren't interested in homebrewing before, right?  More women, more young people, more non-engineers?  That's good, unless you're refuting that.  But people aren't spending as much on "stuff" at the stores, and not spending as long in the hobby, correct?  Meanwhile a whole lot of people have gone pro. Also good (for them at least). I've never tried to make people less enthusiastic than myself unwelcome in this hobby and in fact as stated have actively done the opposite.  But I still prefer to spend my time with my own peeps - people I can relate to, have things in common with, have known for years.  My brewing family, basically.

...and a great many have disappeared.

The last part was meant as a general message to everyone - peace, love, hoppiness. No specific targets.

It's seems more that the newer generation of homebrewers is interested in general "maker" culture and not as much "I make beer" or "I make cabinets". Naturally that's a shallower engagement level by the sheer volume of different things to make. It does affect the discussions we have and the content that gets produced.

And I absolutely think a good number of those who would be the obsessive crazy pants brewers of yore are jumping to the pro side.

[narvin]

Phil, I couldn't agree more with you.

The thing is, every time I've thought - "hey, I should go check and see what's going on with the AHA Forum" the top few threads are mostly bickering for no productive reason or threads simply discussing the lack of civility.

The AHA Forum used to be a place were I could learn something. It used to be a place where we all respected each other. Where I wouldn't get PMs telling me that I was doing things wrong. From my stop ins over the past year or so, it hasn't changed much from when I left. Which is a shame.

I guess I have to ask, respectfully, what you were learning 2 years ago that is so much better than what you could learn here now?  There are only so many times that you can be told how to maker a starter (and then after that, only so many you can be told that your yeast are suffering from shear stress).  I feel like I've learned more here in the past year than the year or two before.  I'm not saying that there hasn't always been good information on here, because there has.  The content changes, though, and it has to, or you're just repeating yourself.

[Phil_M]

It's seems more that the newer generation of homebrewers is interested in general "maker" culture and not as much "I make beer" or "I make cabinets". Naturally that's a shallower engagement level by the sheer volume of different things to make. It does affect the discussions we have and the content that gets produced.

Personal pet peeve moment mostly unrelated to brewing-I'm very ticked off with the current "maker culture" because of this shallower engagement level. I've seen folks with a passion for a specific craft scratch the surface of the art/science of their craft, then get pissed off when they don't get hired or turn a profit. Frankly, it's insulting to those who devote their lives to perfecting their art/trade. It's like the whole technician/engineer thing. Sure, you can make great money as a technician, I certainly do. But the closer I get to my degree the more I realize how little I've scratched the surface of my field as a tech.

But this is brewing, a hobby for most on here. Not all want to devote that level of involvement/learning to a hobby, and that's fine. Hobbies aren't supposed to be stressful. I tend to go all in or nothing on hobbies, hence the devotion to brewing science and technical errata. I'm the same way with cars, my obsession has resulted in a nicely equipped garage and can do all the maintenance/repairs on my vehicles. By this time next year I may be working on turning that into a small business tuning (and eventually building) LS and small block Chevy engines. (Not having to pay a mechanic frees up money for tools AND beer!)

Ugh..... I think I've finally got to just say it, in as few words as possible............

Keith, Denny, I love you guys, but you know, you ain't perfect.

Derek, Bryan, I love you guys, but you know, you ain't perfect.

Me, I love myself, but I know I ain't perfect.

The rest of ya's, you're all alright, I love you all, too.

Those of us who are still left here have had to deal with a lot of crap.  We need to put an end to the crap.  I'll do my part if you'll all do yours.  Perhaps the best thing to do is to never ever talk about crap ever again.  Let's friggin talk about beer, dammit.

*group hug*

This. Let's just look past each other's flaws and just try and move on when someone rubs us the wrong way.

[hopfenundmalz]

It's seems more that the newer generation of homebrewers is interested in general "maker" culture and not as much "I make beer" or "I make cabinets". Naturally that's a shallower engagement level by the sheer volume of different things to make. It does affect the discussions we have and the content that gets produced.

Personal pet peeve moment mostly unrelated to brewing-I'm very ticked off with the current "maker culture" because of this shallower engagement level. I've seen folks with a passion for a specific craft scratch the surface of the art/science of their craft, then get pissed off when they don't get hired or turn a profit. Frankly, it's insulting to those who devote their lives to perfecting their art/trade. It's like the whole technician/engineer thing. Sure, you can make great money as a technician, I certainly do. But the closer I get to my degree the more I realize how little I've scratched the surface of my field as a tech.

But this is brewing, a hobby for most on here. Not all want to devote that level of involvement/learning to a hobby, and that's fine. Hobbies aren't supposed to be stressful. I tend to go all in or nothing on hobbies, hence the devotion to brewing science and technical errata. I'm the same way with cars, my obsession has resulted in a nicely equipped garage and can do all the maintenance/repairs on my vehicles. By this time next year I may be working on turning that into a small business tuning (and eventually building) LS and small block Chevy engines. (Not having to pay a mechanic frees up money for tools AND beer!)

Ugh..... I think I've finally got to just say it, in as few words as possible............

Keith, Denny, I love you guys, but you know, you ain't perfect.

Derek, Bryan, I love you guys, but you know, you ain't perfect.

Me, I love myself, but I know I ain't perfect.

The rest of ya's, you're all alright, I love you all, too.

Those of us who are still left here have had to deal with a lot of crap.  We need to put an end to the crap.  I'll do my part if you'll all do yours.  Perhaps the best thing to do is to never ever talk about crap ever again.  Let's friggin talk about beer, dammit.

*group hug*

This. Let's just look past each other's flaws and just try and move on when someone rubs us the wrong way.

my passion for cars was ruined after a career in the auto industry. Be careful with what you wish for!