[Delo]

I posted the chart above on the other thread not realizing it is probably misleading, mostly to show the differences between the different grades of gas.  I think that is probably the reason the person made it.   I took it to show the max of impurities allowed, not necessarily the actual constituents.  I’m not sure why they have max on some, but not on all, and I can totally see that it could be confusing.  Here is a chart for beverage grade co2 from foodsafetymagazine.com that seems to line up with how I was reading it.


Back to the op,  I feel your pain.  My pale ale/IPA kegs have been going south quickly, especially my last one. It lost a lot in a week.  It sucks when you pull a pint and it is not the same beer you first tapped.  I used to bottle prime my kegs and was considering spunding.  Could be unrelated. Could be we dont drink as fast as we used to.

[The Beerery]

Flavor loss is the first stage of oxidation. When beer is spunded and care is used on the cold side you can easily have the best ipa ever stay that way for 6+ months and beyond. Everyone seems to just accept that pale ales and ipa's are only fresh for a short time, it doesn't have to be that way!

[zwiller]

I don't feel sorry for ya at all    Last IPA I made was "ruined" (OK beer) since I decided to try a small sugar dose to mitigate O2 at DH and it kicked the ferment up again, dried the beer out, and hop magic went out the airlock.  2 days woulda been nice!  I normally get 2 weeks.  I personally think force carb is "on the list of suspects" but lower than other things.  I will say that my flavor stability is solid if I don't dry hop.  The brewbrite locks everything thing in for me.  Once you add more polyphenols and O2 during the dry hop it's a whole different game. 

[narvin]

Dry hopping was during primary for this one on day 4, and it was two weeks later from that day that is was at its best.  So the kegging is very suspect.

[narvin]

First, I would love to see your recipe of this best IPA ever.

The grain bill was pretty standard for an IPA with some raw wheat added, but that part is definitely not necessary.  OG 1.068.    The hop schedule for a 11.5 gallon post boil volume was:

0.50 oz.    Columbus   Pellet   12.90   10.6   60 min
1.50 oz.    Columbus   Pellet   12.90   11.6   10 min
2.00 oz.    Columbus   Pellet   12.90   0.0   0 min
5.00 oz.    Equanot   Pellet   15.30   0.0   0 min

The kettle pH was adjusted to 5.2 room temp with phosphoric acid.  Cl-So4 ratio was around 1:1 with both being around 100.

0 Minute hops were in the whirlpool for 30 minutes after chilling to 180.


Dry hops on day 4 in the primary for what ended up being only 9 gallons into the fermenter (thanks to hop screen problems on a new system).  Kegged after 2 weeks total.

6.00 oz.    Citra   Pellet   13.30   0.0   Dry Hop
6.00 oz.    Equanot   Pellet   15.30   0.0   Dry Hop
3.00 oz.    Columbus   Pellet   12.90   0.0   Dry Hop

Edit: Oh yeah, yeast was WLP007

[kramerog]

Have you considered keg hopping?  I dry hop during primary and in the keg for NEIPAs.  My NEIPAs experience rapid change initially probably due to some oxygen exposure due primarily to keg hopping, the keg hop oils dissolving, and yeast dropping out.  Typically (well 3-4 batches) my NEIPAs stabilize after 2-3 weeks and stay strong for 3 months.

[narvin]

Have you considered keg hopping?  I dry hop during primary and in the keg for NEIPAs.  My NEIPAs experience rapid change initially probably due to some oxygen exposure due primarily to keg hopping, the keg hop oils dissolving, and yeast dropping out.  Typically (well 3-4 batches) my NEIPAs stabilize after 2-3 weeks and stay strong for 3 months.

I have.  In fact I just bought one of these:
http://arborfab.com/115-Dry-Hopper-for-Corny-Keg_p_66.html

I'm still curious about alternatives, as well as measuring the effect of force carbing on my other beers.

[kramerog]

I'm still curious about alternatives, as well as measuring the effect of force carbing on my other beers.

I hear ya.  I'm interested in making further improvements too.  Anyway, based on my experience with hops staying fresh for 3 months after adopting closed transfers, my welding grade CO2 (which is almost gone) seems to be OK. 

[HoosierBrew]

Have you considered keg hopping?  I dry hop during primary and in the keg for NEIPAs.  My NEIPAs experience rapid change initially probably due to some oxygen exposure due primarily to keg hopping, the keg hop oils dissolving, and yeast dropping out.  Typically (well 3-4 batches) my NEIPAs stabilize after 2-3 weeks and stay strong for 3 months.

I have.  In fact I just bought one of these:
http://arborfab.com/115-Dry-Hopper-for-Corny-Keg_p_66.html

I have one of those. FYI -  They work well for APA level dry hopping, but for IPA hopping (4+ oz), the hops can compact and not fully dissolve. Picture a compact green turd when you empty it (sorry for the image) . That's why I like the paint strainer bags - they let the hops circulate freely.

[coolman26]

Have you considered keg hopping?  I dry hop during primary and in the keg for NEIPAs.  My NEIPAs experience rapid change initially probably due to some oxygen exposure due primarily to keg hopping, the keg hop oils dissolving, and yeast dropping out.  Typically (well 3-4 batches) my NEIPAs stabilize after 2-3 weeks and stay strong for 3 months.

I have.  In fact I just bought one of these:
http://arborfab.com/115-Dry-Hopper-for-Corny-Keg_p_66.html

I have one of those. FYI -  They work well for APA level dry hopping, but for IPA hopping (4+ oz), the hops can compact and not fully dissolve. Picture a compact green turd when you empty it (sorry for the image) . That's why I like the paint strainer bags - they let the hops circulate freely.

That is why I'm going to run the dip tube through the lid of mine. Toss in the dry hops, and the push to another keg when finished. I found them useless for dry hops.  Big, dry in the center, turd is accurate. I think good for spice and wood though.


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[blatz]

I keep telling you guys, dry hop commando in a keg with a sure screen and then closed transfer to another purged keg.  way better than the canisters, although Jon's large paint strainer is probably as effective.

I've recently just been dryhopping in primary after dumping yeast.

back to OP - I'm interested to hear your trials.  I've personally not experienced this on an IPA - usually first week is meh, followed by 6-10 weeks of greatness before starting to trail off.

I suspect that all the oils and other particulate that was holding the goodness that you like settled.  I don't know about you, but the sediment right around the diptube gets sucked out initially but then after that theres a ton stuck around the rest of the bottom.   

even if it is the impurity of the CO2 (I think small probability), its hard to believe it would present itself that quickly.

what about flipping the keg upside down for a couple hours, right it, and then pour a pint?

[Wilbur]

I've had good luck wth the paint strainer bags also, and at 3 for$3 they're not bad either.

I'm wondering if the DO in CO2 is also a bit of a Boogeyman. The recent brulosophy experiment found 45-117 ppb of oxygen using reasonably simple bottling techniques. Without bottling I imagine it's lower. I guess it depends on rate of oxidation for hop compounds at low temperatures​.

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[narvin]

Curious to those who use the canister: do you dry hop at room temperature or lagering temperature?  In my fermenter the pellet hops float until I chill, and then they promptly compact nicely at the bottom.  I would hope that filling it half way and starting warm when fermentation is still active would let them all hydrate, but I guess I'll find out!

[The Beerery]

Marvin, did you use any other low oxygen techniques?   Reason I ask is because it's REALLY amplifies the sharp decline.


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[Bilsch]

If you suspect your CO2 has O2 contamination, you might want to look into sparge carbonation.
https://tapintohach.com/2014/01/27/how-the-purity-of-sparged-carbon-dioxide-affects-the-oxygen-concentration-of-beer/