Author Topic: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred  (Read 2148 times)

Offline Andor

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Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« on: June 17, 2017, 02:00:27 AM »
I tried a few hefeweizen beers early in my craft beer journey and wrote them off. I tried a local ish hefeweizen today and loved it . Susquehanna so wheat is the beer. Very little banana which is what turned me off. Any advice on brewing a low banana Weiss. Seems like wyeast 3638 is the way to go for yeast

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2017, 02:12:37 AM »
Wyeast 3068 held around 65-66F holds the excess banana in check, and enhances the clove character IME. Not a big fan of the banana bomb hefes either. $0.02 .
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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2017, 06:33:28 PM »
I tried a few hefeweizen beers early in my craft beer journey and wrote them off. I tried a local ish hefeweizen today and loved it . Susquehanna so wheat is the beer. Very little banana which is what turned me off. Any advice on brewing a low banana Weiss. Seems like wyeast 3638 is the way to go for yeast
I love 3638. Pitch on the low side (1 smack pack/no starter for 5 gallons of a typical gravity hefe), and ferment in the mid-60's. That will give you low banana, and a nice sweet-spice phenolic note (not just clove, but hints of vanilla/anise/cinnamon). It works even better in a dunkelweizen, in my opinion, but still makes a real nice hefe.
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2017, 07:23:07 PM »
I will 2nd the 3068, get it as fresh as you can or make a small starter.  Id hold it at 65F for the little amount of banana. Dough in at 110F and hold for 10-15m before you jump to your next temp to get your 4vg working.

I will always love weissbier for the drinkability, but I can say adding fruit to a 3068 beer is really really good.  I make a lemon drop fo-shandy with a 60/20/20 wheat/pils/munich light and mandarina and lemon drop ~15IBUs and dryhopped with lemon drop.   Have not met a hefe-hater that didn't like it yet.

*Edit if you get the chance, try WLP351 and hold at 62F and finish high.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 01:54:50 PM by JJeffers09 »
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Offline flars

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2017, 11:38:21 PM »
Over pitching WY 3068 and fermenting cool will result in reduced banana and distinct clove flavor.  Under pitching stresses the yeast and then combined with a high fermentation temperature results in the over the top banana.

I only care for some banana when it is the background.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2017, 02:32:44 PM »
Dough in at 110F and hold for 10-15m before you jump to your next temp to get your 4vg working.


You need a high (meaning not acidified in any way) pH and at least 30 minutes for anything to really happen.. FYI.
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2017, 03:59:36 PM »
Dough in at 110F and hold for 10-15m before you jump to your next temp to get your 4vg working.


You need a high (meaning not acidified in any way) pH and at least 30 minutes for anything to really happen.. FYI.

That's right, not insanely high, 5.7-8 then acidify your mash after the acid rest. Which a Munich water profile should be pretty easy to get that ballpark at the start of your mash.  However, correct me if I am wrong, I believe it takes at least long enough for 4VG to develop before the pH actually drops to an ideal pH range for mashing if you are not using acid.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2017, 06:31:56 PM »
Dough in at 110F and hold for 10-15m before you jump to your next temp to get your 4vg working.


You need a high (meaning not acidified in any way) pH and at least 30 minutes for anything to really happen.. FYI.

That's right, not insanely high, 5.7-8 then acidify your mash after the acid rest. Which a Munich water profile should be pretty easy to get that ballpark at the start of your mash.  However, correct me if I am wrong, I believe it takes at least long enough for 4VG to develop before the pH actually drops to an ideal pH range for mashing if you are not using acid.

that's why it's called an acid rest.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2017, 07:03:14 PM »
Dough in at 110F and hold for 10-15m before you jump to your next temp to get your 4vg working.


You need a high (meaning not acidified in any way) pH and at least 30 minutes for anything to really happen.. FYI.

That's right, not insanely high, 5.7-8 then acidify your mash after the acid rest. Which a Munich water profile should be pretty easy to get that ballpark at the start of your mash.  However, correct me if I am wrong, I believe it takes at least long enough for 4VG to develop before the pH actually drops to an ideal pH range for mashing if you are not using acid.

that's why it's called an acid rest.

Thats a kind of a misnomer. The mash would spoil before you brought the acid down enough to make it beneficial.

Even overnight is not enough.
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2017, 07:12:09 PM »
Dough in at 110F and hold for 10-15m before you jump to your next temp to get your 4vg working.


You need a high (meaning not acidified in any way) pH and at least 30 minutes for anything to really happen.. FYI.

That's right, not insanely high, 5.7-8 then acidify your mash after the acid rest. Which a Munich water profile should be pretty easy to get that ballpark at the start of your mash.  However, correct me if I am wrong, I believe it takes at least long enough for 4VG to develop before the pH actually drops to an ideal pH range for mashing if you are not using acid.

that's why it's called an acid rest.

Thats a kind of a misnomer. The mash would spoil before you brought the acid down enough to make it beneficial.

Even overnight is not enough.
Which would or would not be in the acceptable pH range for 4VG between 108-113F for 10 minutes?

I think yes, but then again it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2017, 09:16:41 PM »
Dough in at 110F and hold for 10-15m before you jump to your next temp to get your 4vg working.


You need a high (meaning not acidified in any way) pH and at least 30 minutes for anything to really happen.. FYI.

That's right, not insanely high, 5.7-8 then acidify your mash after the acid rest. Which a Munich water profile should be pretty easy to get that ballpark at the start of your mash.  However, correct me if I am wrong, I believe it takes at least long enough for 4VG to develop before the pH actually drops to an ideal pH range for mashing if you are not using acid.

that's why it's called an acid rest.

Thats a kind of a misnomer. The mash would spoil before you brought the acid down enough to make it beneficial.

Even overnight is not enough.
Which would or would not be in the acceptable pH range for 4VG between 108-113F for 10 minutes?

I think yes, but then again it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

No acid in the mash would make the rest good in the proper pH range, and you could rest there for 10 minutes (albeit 10 minutes isn't going to do much for you). IF you are looking for a clove expression mash at 114 for about 30-60 minutes with no acid in the mash. IF you are feeling froggy I have the hefeweiss bier holy grail mash handy.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2017, 09:27:39 PM »
To the OP, Hefe is one of the few remaining styles (and probably the only German style) that I don't care for however I have not had a decent example in years since my beer palette has expanded. I have started to enjoy more yeast driven styles so I suppose I should give it another chance. Carry on...

I would give some FRESH german examples a try, if you can get Weihenstephaner look at the bottle codes and find a fresh one. I am kind of in the same boat. I am a pale lager kind of guy, but zee Germans just do it so perfect its hard to argue. I brew my fair share of them, the last one I did in particular was outstanding.
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Offline Ale Farmer

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 12:54:03 AM »
I enjoy the full range of hefeweizen, from banana to clove and somewhere in between. But I've stopped making the style (and dunkleweizen) because I can't drink it fast enough for the flavor to remain fresh. I realize that making smaller batches would help, but for now I've decided that this is one style of beer I'll just buy when I'm at a restaurant or pub.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 01:14:59 PM »
But I've stopped making the style (and dunkleweizen) because I can't drink it fast enough for the flavor to remain fresh.

It doesn't have to be that way!
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Re evaluating hefeweizen hatred
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2017, 04:33:17 PM »
Dough in at 110F and hold for 10-15m before you jump to your next temp to get your 4vg working.


You need a high (meaning not acidified in any way) pH and at least 30 minutes for anything to really happen.. FYI.

That's right, not insanely high, 5.7-8 then acidify your mash after the acid rest. Which a Munich water profile should be pretty easy to get that ballpark at the start of your mash.  However, correct me if I am wrong, I believe it takes at least long enough for 4VG to develop before the pH actually drops to an ideal pH range for mashing if you are not using acid.

that's why it's called an acid rest.

Thats a kind of a misnomer. The mash would spoil before you brought the acid down enough to make it beneficial.

Even overnight is not enough.

not sure I'm understanding you. I'v edone overnight kettle sour rests at ~110 that ended at pH 3.8. granted the mash was manipulated to provide the correct pH to start with and I couldn't tell you at what point it had dropped the 2 points you are looking at here, but Lactic bacteria can work pretty fast at  optimum temps
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