[Big Monk]

I mash in at or around 144 °F holding for 20 minutes. Then I step up to 147 °F and hold that for 10 minutes. Then I step up to 162 °F and hold that for 30 minutes. Then mash out at 171 °F for 10 minutes.

I'm using a PID controlled direct fire setup.


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[scrap iron]

I'll try holding longer at 144 before adding heat and keep next rest lower at 147-149 for well attenuated beers. I have a direct fire Me [manual] controlled system so it takes some fine tuning. What mash would you use for a dark beer like Porter or Stout using this system? Thanks for your help.

[Big Monk]

I'll try holding longer at 144 before adding heat and keep next rest lower at 147-149 for well attenuated beers. I have a direct fire Me [manual] controlled system so it takes some fine tuning. What mash would you use for a dark beer like Porter or Stout using this system? Thanks for your help.

I mash all my beers the same. I brew a Belgian series: Table Beer, Dubbel, Tripel and Dark Strong. I want the same wort composition in all of them.

[scrap iron]

I have a soft spot for Belgian beers especially Dark Strong. My Grandma was born there and came to the US during the First World War. Many stories from her about her Dad brewing beer. He had a tunnel under the kitchen that he pulled up floorboards to get to his stash. Before it was legal here in the US. Very good info, again thanks.

[Big Monk]

I have a soft spot for Belgian beers especially Dark Strong. My Grandma was born there and came to the US during the First World War. Many stories from her about her Dad brewing beer. He had a tunnel under the kitchen that he pulled up floorboards to get to his stash. Before it was legal here in the US. Very good info, again thanks.

Here is a chart that shows why it's so important not to bypass the various temperatures in the β range:

[charles1968]

My grain absorption might be a little higher than .55 qts per pound , maybe .6 qts  per pound or a little more but that adds up to around two gallons with 14.5 pounds grain.

In addition to the conversion loss and grain absorption, you're losing about half a gallon of wort in MLT dead space. If you could tip your mash tun over gently after collecting the wort, you'd get most of that back.

[cdawson]

I mash in at or around 144 °F holding for 20 minutes. Then I step up to 147 °F and hold that for 10 minutes. Then I step up to 162 °F and hold that for 30 minutes. Then mash out at 171 °F for 10 minutes.

I'm using a PID controlled direct fire setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Suppose doing a no sparge using a MLT (unable to heat directly) with you could mash in at the lower temp using part of the then step up temp by adding more water at different temps, hitting mash out temp with your last addition to bring up to mash out temp?? Seems like it should work, but would take some tweaking depending on each persons setup. Unless you will lose something by starting with a lower water to grist ratio...

I'm just now getting ready to start doing more all grain and would like to do no sparge, especially if theres not much difference from batch sparging.

[The Beerery]

I mash in at or around 144 °F holding for 20 minutes. Then I step up to 147 °F and hold that for 10 minutes. Then I step up to 162 °F and hold that for 30 minutes. Then mash out at 171 °F for 10 minutes.

I'm using a PID controlled direct fire setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Suppose doing a no sparge using a MLT (unable to heat directly) with you could mash in at the lower temp using part of the then step up temp by adding more water at different temps, hitting mash out temp with your last addition to bring up to mash out temp?? Seems like it should work, but would take some tweaking depending on each persons setup. Unless you will lose something by starting with a lower water to grist ratio...

I'm just now getting ready to start doing more all grain and would like to do no sparge, especially if theres not much difference from batch sparging.

I average about 85-90% (100% conversion) efficiency on no sparge for average gravity beers. There is no reason to sparge if you have the room.

[narvin]

I average about 85-90% (100% conversion) efficiency on no sparge for average gravity beers. There is no reason to sparge if you have the room.

Seems like that goes against the math I've seen, mostly on Kai's site.  No sparge can be pretty good but there's a practical limit of brewhouse efficiency due to grain absorption.

Edit: unless you BIAB and squeeze, I suppose.  But without it you're losing a non-negligible amount of first wort and the sugars along with it.

[The Beerery]

I average about 85-90% (100% conversion) efficiency on no sparge for average gravity beers. There is no reason to sparge if you have the room.

Seems like that goes against the math I've seen, mostly on Kai's site.  No sparge can be pretty good but there's a practical limit of brewhouse efficiency due to grain absorption.

Edit: unless you BIAB and squeeze, I suppose.  But without it you're losing a non-negligible amount of first wort and the sugars along with it.

I follow Kai's numbers for 100% conversion nearly identical. I have .08 for grain absorption, and .125gal of dead space/loss from mash tun to boil kettle.  This allows me to hit the wtg ratios I need to get my starting gravity.  No biab/squeezing.  Verified by a calibrated digital refractometer, volume sensors calibrated to .001 and I manually measure the wort height in the kettle, cause I am OCD like that!

My mash looks like this:


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[charles1968]

No sparge can be pretty good but there's a practical limit of brewhouse efficiency due to grain absorption.

Yes this is my experience. Apologies in advance for metric measures - on my last brew I mashed 3.7kg grain in 21 litres of water. One litre of wort is lost in absorption for every 1 kg of grain. So maximum I can get from the no sparge mash is 17.7 litres wort from my 21 litres liquor,  i.e. theoretical maximum 84% efficiency assuming no other losses. I don't think 90% is possible.

In practice I get about 75-80%. I might get a few % more with a sparge, but the cost saving from that few % extra is negligible. My time is worth more than 50 cents (or thereabouts) an hour, so I'd rather just use a bit more malt to compensate and skip the mash.

[bayareabrewer]

I mash in at or around 144 °F holding for 20 minutes. Then I step up to 147 °F and hold that for 10 minutes. Then I step up to 162 °F and hold that for 30 minutes. Then mash out at 171 °F for 10 minutes.

I'm using a PID controlled direct fire setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Suppose doing a no sparge using a MLT (unable to heat directly) with you could mash in at the lower temp using part of the then step up temp by adding more water at different temps, hitting mash out temp with your last addition to bring up to mash out temp?? Seems like it should work, but would take some tweaking depending on each persons setup. Unless you will lose something by starting with a lower water to grist ratio...

I'm just now getting ready to start doing more all grain and would like to do no sparge, especially if theres not much difference from batch sparging.

I average about 85-90% (100% conversion) efficiency on no sparge for average gravity beers. There is no reason to sparge if you have the room.

iirc previously you stated you got 83% efficiency, and I believe there are sources that state 90% efficiency for no sparge is not possible. Although I'm sure LODO changes all that.

[The Beerery]

Hey! Nice to see you back. 
Process improvements and loss mitigation are beautiful things.


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[Big Monk]

No sparge can be pretty good but there's a practical limit of brewhouse efficiency due to grain absorption.

Yes this is my experience. Apologies in advance for metric measures - on my last brew I mashed 3.7kg grain in 21 litres of water. One litre of wort is lost in absorption for every 1 kg of grain. So maximum I can get from the no sparge mash is 17.7 litres wort from my 21 litres liquor,  i.e. theoretical maximum 84% efficiency assuming no other losses. I don't think 90% is possible.

In practice I get about 75-80%. I might get a few % more with a sparge, but the cost saving from that few % extra is negligible. My time is worth more than 50 cents (or thereabouts) an hour, so I'd rather just use a bit more malt to compensate and skip the mash.

It varies with grain bill but Bryan routinely (weekly actually) gets between 85-90% η with no sparge.

I'm getting 75-80% η due to my higher mash loss.

[dbeechum]

Dear friends and neighbors remember:


Rule applies to everyone.

Thanks
- Drew