Author Topic: Lager Won't Clear  (Read 1560 times)

Offline swampale

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Lager Won't Clear
« on: June 27, 2017, 11:45:24 AM »
This is my 6th brew using 100% RO water along with Bru'n Water. They all have been good beers and clear very well even without gelatin except my lager. Today is day 8 with gelatin and it is still very hazy. I can't figure it out. My ESB cleared almost bright without any gelatin at all. Is it the yeast? ( WLP833 ) or the recipe? Canadian 2 row, along with 8% munich 6. No pic, but it looks like pea soup.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2017, 11:56:08 AM »
833 usually clears well for me given some time.

Have you tried Polyclar?  It works well on polyphenols and proteins, while gelatin works great on yeast.
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Offline Ellismr

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Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2017, 12:18:05 PM »
Depending on how you mashed if you extend it longer you may have extracted the tannins and polyphenols from the grain husks and that will make your beer cloudy.  If you had  oxygen in your beer during the transfer it'll bind with the phenols make it cloudy.  At this point the best way to get those polyphenols is to use the polyclar also known as PPVP


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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2017, 12:49:45 PM »
833 is Ayingers bottle conditioning strain and as such is a poor flocc'r.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2017, 04:10:12 PM »
833 is Ayingers bottle conditioning strain and as such is a poor flocc'r.
How do you know that?
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Offline denny

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 04:43:51 PM »
833 is Ayingers bottle conditioning strain and as such is a poor flocc'r.
How do you know that?

And most bottle conditioning strains are excellent floccers.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 04:49:45 PM »
833 is Ayingers bottle conditioning strain and as such is a poor flocc'r.
How do you know that?

I drink beer and know stuff!  ;)

Actually I mis-spoke it is their conditioning strain.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 05:03:56 PM by The Beerery »
Herr, wirf Hirn vom Himmel!
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 05:16:17 PM »
833 is Ayingers bottle conditioning strain and as such is a poor flocc'r.
How do you know that?

I drink beer and know stuff!  ;)
Do you know the history of 833?

In Ypsilanti MI there is a brewery supplier named GW Kent, which has the import rights to Durst Malz. Herr Durst would visit, and back in the day got to know the brewpub owners in Ann Arbor, Arbor Brewing. He gave them the lager yeast we know as 833. Jeff Renner got it,and homebrewed with it. He sent it to White Labs, and they cleaned it up, and marketed it.

Now without DNA testing we don't know, do we. Where did Herr Durst get it? If you have Jahrhundert from the tanks, there is yeast in it. If one is around a certain part of a brewery, yeast can be "requisitioned".

As an aside, a brewer here in MI tells a story from years back, when he toured a brewery in Germany with open fermenters. One guy on the trip was from Stroh's lab, and said "do you want some yeast". The guy pulled out a handkerchief, stuck a finger into the krausen, and wiped it on the handkerchief. Back in the states sometime later, the guy said "I got some yeast for you". The cells on the handkerchief survived and were cleaned up and cultured up in the lab.

I told that last part as the new brewery with unitanks was built in 1999. Arbor opened in 1995. So did the yeast come from open fermenters in the old brewery? Like I said, DNA testing would tell the true answer.

The owners also got a vintage Daimler-Benz fire truck from Herr Durst. It has been cleaned up, is road worthy, and has taps coming out the side for service at beer festivals. Note the front license plate, DURST 1.
http://discussions.realbeer.com/showthread.php?22742-Mercedes-Benz-fire-truck-waits-to-catch-the-draft-at-Ypsilanti-s-Corner-Brewery

Jeff Rankert
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BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 05:35:28 PM »
833 is Ayingers bottle conditioning strain and as such is a poor flocc'r.
How do you know that?

I drink beer and know stuff!  ;)
Do you know the history of 833?

In Ypsilanti MI there is a brewery supplier named GW Kent, which has the import rights to Durst Malz. Herr Durst would visit, and back in the day got to know the brewpub owners in Ann Arbor, Arbor Brewing. He gave them the lager yeast we know as 833. Jeff Renner got it,and homebrewed with it. He sent it to White Labs, and they cleaned it up, and marketed it.

Now without DNA testing we don't know, do we. Where did Herr Durst get it? If you have Jahrhundert from the tanks, there is yeast in it. If one is around a certain part of a brewery, yeast can be "requisitioned".

As an aside, a brewer here in MI tells a story from years back, when he toured a brewery in Germany with open fermenters. One guy on the trip was from Stroh's lab, and said "do you want some yeast". The guy pulled out a handkerchief, stuck a finger into the krausen, and wiped it on the handkerchief. Back in the states sometime later, the guy said "I got some yeast for you". The cells on the handkerchief survived and were cleaned up and cultured up in the lab.

I told that last part as the new brewery with unitanks was built in 1999. Arbor opened in 1995. So did the yeast come from open fermenters in the old brewery? Like I said, DNA testing would tell the true answer.

The owners also got a vintage Daimler-Benz fire truck from Herr Durst. It has been cleaned up, is road worthy, and has taps coming out the side for service at beer festivals. Note the front license plate, DURST 1.
http://discussions.realbeer.com/showthread.php?22742-Mercedes-Benz-fire-truck-waits-to-catch-the-draft-at-Ypsilanti-s-Corner-Brewery


Yes, I believe I have seen that in the old HBD archives. I got my info from my contact at Ayinger. Yes, I have had Jahr straight from the teet, its magical.
Herr, wirf Hirn vom Himmel!
(Oder Steine, Hauptsache er trifft.)
Check us out at www.lowoxygenbrewing.com (Now with forums)
"Consistently successful brewers are invariably the ones who operate low oxygen systems." -George Fix Circa 1999
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2017, 05:51:51 PM »
833 is Ayingers bottle conditioning strain and as such is a poor flocc'r.
How do you know that?

I drink beer and know stuff!  ;)
Do you know the history of 833?

In Ypsilanti MI there is a brewery supplier named GW Kent, which has the import rights to Durst Malz. Herr Durst would visit, and back in the day got to know the brewpub owners in Ann Arbor, Arbor Brewing. He gave them the lager yeast we know as 833. Jeff Renner got it,and homebrewed with it. He sent it to White Labs, and they cleaned it up, and marketed it.

Now without DNA testing we don't know, do we. Where did Herr Durst get it? If you have Jahrhundert from the tanks, there is yeast in it. If one is around a certain part of a brewery, yeast can be "requisitioned".

As an aside, a brewer here in MI tells a story from years back, when he toured a brewery in Germany with open fermenters. One guy on the trip was from Stroh's lab, and said "do you want some yeast". The guy pulled out a handkerchief, stuck a finger into the krausen, and wiped it on the handkerchief. Back in the states sometime later, the guy said "I got some yeast for you". The cells on the handkerchief survived and were cleaned up and cultured up in the lab.

I told that last part as the new brewery with unitanks was built in 1999. Arbor opened in 1995. So did the yeast come from open fermenters in the old brewery? Like I said, DNA testing would tell the true answer.

The owners also got a vintage Daimler-Benz fire truck from Herr Durst. It has been cleaned up, is road worthy, and has taps coming out the side for service at beer festivals. Note the front license plate, DURST 1.
http://discussions.realbeer.com/showthread.php?22742-Mercedes-Benz-fire-truck-waits-to-catch-the-draft-at-Ypsilanti-s-Corner-Brewery


Yes, I believe I have seen that in the old HBD archives. I got my info from my contact at Ayinger. Yes, I have had Jahr straight from the teet, its magical.
If 833 is the bottling strain, it makes some fine beer. I use it for malty beers, and it clears given time.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2017, 05:58:48 PM »
833 is Ayingers bottle conditioning strain and as such is a poor flocc'r.
How do you know that?

I drink beer and know stuff!  ;)
Do you know the history of 833?

In Ypsilanti MI there is a brewery supplier named GW Kent, which has the import rights to Durst Malz. Herr Durst would visit, and back in the day got to know the brewpub owners in Ann Arbor, Arbor Brewing. He gave them the lager yeast we know as 833. Jeff Renner got it,and homebrewed with it. He sent it to White Labs, and they cleaned it up, and marketed it.

Now without DNA testing we don't know, do we. Where did Herr Durst get it? If you have Jahrhundert from the tanks, there is yeast in it. If one is around a certain part of a brewery, yeast can be "requisitioned".

As an aside, a brewer here in MI tells a story from years back, when he toured a brewery in Germany with open fermenters. One guy on the trip was from Stroh's lab, and said "do you want some yeast". The guy pulled out a handkerchief, stuck a finger into the krausen, and wiped it on the handkerchief. Back in the states sometime later, the guy said "I got some yeast for you". The cells on the handkerchief survived and were cleaned up and cultured up in the lab.

I told that last part as the new brewery with unitanks was built in 1999. Arbor opened in 1995. So did the yeast come from open fermenters in the old brewery? Like I said, DNA testing would tell the true answer.

The owners also got a vintage Daimler-Benz fire truck from Herr Durst. It has been cleaned up, is road worthy, and has taps coming out the side for service at beer festivals. Note the front license plate, DURST 1.
http://discussions.realbeer.com/showthread.php?22742-Mercedes-Benz-fire-truck-waits-to-catch-the-draft-at-Ypsilanti-s-Corner-Brewery


Yes, I believe I have seen that in the old HBD archives. I got my info from my contact at Ayinger. Yes, I have had Jahr straight from the teet, its magical.
If 833 is the bottling strain, it makes some fine beer. I use it for malty beers, and it clears given time.
Sure, its a nice strain. It's not sulfury enough for me personally, but made many a beer with it.
Herr, wirf Hirn vom Himmel!
(Oder Steine, Hauptsache er trifft.)
Check us out at www.lowoxygenbrewing.com (Now with forums)
"Consistently successful brewers are invariably the ones who operate low oxygen systems." -George Fix Circa 1999
Taplist and Fermentation Cellar
"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change"

Offline zigs6

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2017, 10:02:14 AM »
What was your water chemistry like? Are you low on Calcium perhaps?

Offline swampale

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2017, 10:56:18 AM »
I used the " yellow balanced " profile from Bru'n Water. My Blonde ales fermented with US-05 and Nottingham cleared fine with the addition of gelatin. I am thinking on searching for another lager yeast with a " high flocculation ".

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2017, 12:41:07 PM »
I used the " yellow balanced " profile from Bru'n Water. My Blonde ales fermented with US-05 and Nottingham cleared fine with the addition of gelatin. I am thinking on searching for another lager yeast with a " high flocculation ".

None, I know of have high.. I don't think you want high anyways, they might flocc out too soon. A few have medium however.
Herr, wirf Hirn vom Himmel!
(Oder Steine, Hauptsache er trifft.)
Check us out at www.lowoxygenbrewing.com (Now with forums)
"Consistently successful brewers are invariably the ones who operate low oxygen systems." -George Fix Circa 1999
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Offline swampale

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Re: Lager Won't Clear
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2017, 12:45:47 AM »
It finally cleared. Took only 30 days after my addition of gelatin.