Author Topic: "High End's" Message to Craft  (Read 6740 times)

Offline Visor

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2017, 05:32:08 PM »
   I don't see the label as an attempt to suggest that beers carrying it are qualitatively superior to ones lacking it, but as Denny said, it is just another piece of information about the product that either means something to you, or it doesn't. I, as a rule, buy American whenever I can, and I greatly appreciate laws that require Nation of Origin labeling, I feel it is my right to know where the merchandise I purchase comes from. Carrying that over to beer, it will be good that now, when I do buy beer, I can tell instantly whether the beer I'm looking at is independent or a wolf in sheep's clothing, without having to keep a list of sold out breweries on my person. I don't buy much packaged beer anymore as I can no longer find what I want because it has all been replaced by macro stuff, and because the beer I brew is more to my liking than most of what is available to purchase.
   Many consumers don't care who makes the beer they like, and they'll continue buying it with or without this label. Many others do care and knowing whether a particular beer is indy or macro may play a part in their decision on which beer to purchase. The only ones who will be harmed by this label are the former crafts that did sell out because now some of their customers who do care about the ownership status of the breweries they support will switch to buying other beers.
   Regarding Jeff's comment about the speed with which a professionally made video was produced and released, I kind of noticed that myself, and wondered how AB managed to get all those brewers to one location to film in that short time frame. You don't suppose that this little label really is a big deal to them? 
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2017, 07:38:29 PM »
I expect BMC to respond with other labeling and advertising that confuses the issue and confuses the consumer. That's how they roll.

Exactly. I see a very similar looking logo on ABI bought breweries on the horizon, to test the BA's will and financial ability to challenge in court.


I haven't seen anyone make the point that is to me the main point: the big players who are buying these craft breweries are actively disguising the fact that these are no longer independently owned breweries. Since the BA
can't force inbev etc to be truthful they can take this action. It's a smart way to fight back against predatory behavior.

I agree.
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Offline Bilsch

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2017, 10:52:22 PM »
I'd like to support my local breweries but most are terrible. They sell a lot of beer, in my opinion, because they are local and not because they are higher quality or taste better. This all feels vaguely similar to the 80's when we were all told to buy American cars.. because well, they were American made. The problem was the quality of said vehicles were crap. The imports coming in from Japan were so much better and the value was undeniable. Eventually car companies had to either get their act together or go the way of the dinosaur, which they arguably did. It's my feeling if we support breweries based on criteria other then that.. we are enabling them to mediocrity. I want the beer I drink to be of high quality and taste good. I could give a rats ass how big the brewery is.

Offline Visor

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #48 on: July 02, 2017, 11:16:37 PM »
  At risk of going off topic, I know the official post mortem on 80's era vehicles is the one you so eloquently stated, in this galactic backwater though there are almost no rice rockets from the 80's still licensed and being driven, still a hell of a lot of American iron rolling up and down the roads though. I apologize for the side track , but sometimes I feel another view needs to be presented.
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Offline pete b

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2017, 11:33:42 PM »
I'd like to support my local breweries but most are terrible. They sell a lot of beer, in my opinion, because they are local and not because they are higher quality or taste better. This all feels vaguely similar to the 80's when we were all told to buy American cars.. because well, they were American made. The problem was the quality of said vehicles were crap. The imports coming in from Japan were so much better and the value was undeniable. Eventually car companies had to either get their act together or go the way of the dinosaur, which they arguably did. It's my feeling if we support breweries based on criteria other then that.. we are enabling them to mediocrity. I want the beer I drink to be of high quality and taste good. I could give a rats ass how big the brewery is.
It's nothing to do with local, it's about independently owned and about the big guys business practices. I understand that there are small breweries that make crappie beer but there are many small breweries that make good to world best beers. If you cannot access good beer from independent breweries then guess what? It's because in inbev and others take over the store shelves.

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Offline Bilsch

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2017, 12:30:25 AM »
I don't condone monopolistic policies that limit shelf space to any product and the fact that BMC does that is not right. Also pushing the word craft feels disingenuous to me because it is not synonymous with actual quality. I will drink product from any brewer who makes good quality beer. Unfortunately the shelves in my local stores are 50% bmc and 49% craft and 1% terribly old and damaged imports. I feel screwed all the way round.


Offline pete b

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2017, 01:00:04 AM »
Agreed that the word craft is used and abused. When a store nearby carries mostly bmc I don't frequent them. When they are obviously trying to carry good beer I compliment them, come back a lot, and often become aquainted with the owner and make suggestions.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2017, 01:15:26 AM »
I see it as more of an independent vs predatory business tactic declaration. Totally fair. Quality is always subjective and not the big point here IMO.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #53 on: July 03, 2017, 02:05:26 AM »
As an example of sneaky maneuvers, just back across the state line into Ohio, a closed down beverage drive through has reopened. They are announcing it with banners printed with budweiser 3x across the bottom of the banners. I have to imagine that the local distributor printed them for the drive through free if charge, and at least when I was in the business, that was against the law. It happens, but it usually only happens with the inbev family, no craft brewery can afford to do this, or to skirt the law so blatantly. Just another data point and viewpoint.

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Offline denny

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2017, 01:45:53 PM »
I don't condone monopolistic policies that limit shelf space to any product and the fact that BMC does that is not right. Also pushing the word craft feels disingenuous to me because it is not synonymous with actual quality. I will drink product from any brewer who makes good quality beer. Unfortunately the shelves in my local stores are 50% bmc and 49% craft and 1% terribly old and damaged imports. I feel screwed all the way round.

Keep in mind the wrod "craft" doesn't figure into the seal.  It's about independent breweries.
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Offline denny

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2017, 01:46:38 PM »
I hear you Jon. I'm not sticking up for macro beer here. I'm just saying that they should call it what it is. If you need to engage in psychological warfare to combat the dirty tactics of the big boys then so be it. Call it that though.

All this symbol says is that an independent brewer had the money to buy the rights to the symbol, and that's fine, but it's also a detriment to the truly unique and high quality craft beers out there.

I'm not on a side here. I drink all kinds of beer and homebrew. I'm just playing devils advocate for each point.

The right to use the symbol is free.

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Offline ethinson

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2017, 02:01:57 PM »
I don't condone monopolistic policies that limit shelf space to any product and the fact that BMC does that is not right. Also pushing the word craft feels disingenuous to me because it is not synonymous with actual quality. I will drink product from any brewer who makes good quality beer. Unfortunately the shelves in my local stores are 50% bmc and 49% craft and 1% terribly old and damaged imports. I feel screwed all the way round.

Keep in mind the word "craft" doesn't figure into the seal.  It's about independent breweries.

Yes, but the people eligible to use it will be the BA "Craft" list... and this is the problem I have with the BA Craft designation.  They've pushed out any other requirement (local, volume, community) etc and the only thing that matters now is ownership. Not the beer itself, not even the brewery itself.  They keep bumping up the volume limits to include Boston Beer, and then last year they added Yuengling to the list as automatic #1.  SA is distributed nationwide and Yuengling is in 12-15 states.  SA does a whole lot of the stuff we accuse AB InBev of doing but it's OK cause they are craft.  18 SKUs in the grocery store, production of non beer alcopops and flavored malt beverages, advertising at the super bowl that no one else can afford etc etc.  Yuengling on the other hand makes all of two beers... Beer and Beer Light... (and a handful of seasonals).

Just my personal opinion, and it's been an unpopular one, but Sam Adams and Yuengling aren't craft.  If you're going to label huge industrial mass market beer producers (sound familiar?) as craft, than the whole designation is meaningless.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2017, 03:58:26 PM »
I don't condone monopolistic policies that limit shelf space to any product and the fact that BMC does that is not right. Also pushing the word craft feels disingenuous to me because it is not synonymous with actual quality. I will drink product from any brewer who makes good quality beer. Unfortunately the shelves in my local stores are 50% bmc and 49% craft and 1% terribly old and damaged imports. I feel screwed all the way round.

Keep in mind the word "craft" doesn't figure into the seal.  It's about independent breweries.

Yes, but the people eligible to use it will be the BA "Craft" list... and this is the problem I have with the BA Craft designation.  They've pushed out any other requirement (local, volume, community) etc and the only thing that matters now is ownership. Not the beer itself, not even the brewery itself.  They keep bumping up the volume limits to include Boston Beer, and then last year they added Yuengling to the list as automatic #1.  SA is distributed nationwide and Yuengling is in 12-15 states.  SA does a whole lot of the stuff we accuse AB InBev of doing but it's OK cause they are craft.  18 SKUs in the grocery store, production of non beer alcopops and flavored malt beverages, advertising at the super bowl that no one else can afford etc etc.  Yuengling on the other hand makes all of two beers... Beer and Beer Light... (and a handful of seasonals).

Just my personal opinion, and it's been an unpopular one, but Sam Adams and Yuengling aren't craft.  If you're going to label huge industrial mass market beer producers (sound familiar?) as craft, than the whole designation is meaningless.
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Yuengling hosted a First Round NHC site in Tampa this year, which was a good thing in my book.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 05:19:00 PM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2017, 04:48:00 PM »
I'd like to support my local breweries but most are terrible. They sell a lot of beer, in my opinion, because they are local and not because they are higher quality or taste better. This all feels vaguely similar to the 80's when we were all told to buy American cars.. because well, they were American made. The problem was the quality of said vehicles were crap. The imports coming in from Japan were so much better and the value was undeniable. Eventually car companies had to either get their act together or go the way of the dinosaur, which they arguably did. It's my feeling if we support breweries based on criteria other then that.. we are enabling them to mediocrity. I want the beer I drink to be of high quality and taste good. I could give a rats ass how big the brewery is.

+1  Beer quality for the win!
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2017, 06:52:12 PM »
I'm pretty happy to see this, although unless it get's integrated into tap handles, I don't see a huge impact. Honestly, when I was in San Diego this last weekend I was blown away by the beer selection. Unless I was at a brewery, selection was pretty standard-Ballast point, Elysian, 10 Barrel, Golden Road, Corona, & Domestics. Some great beers there, but I can completely support some of the smaller guys in trying to get some tap space. Anything you can do to help distinguish yourself.