Author Topic: Yeast Fermentation Temp  (Read 1249 times)

Offline foxburggolf

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Still learning
    • View Profile
Yeast Fermentation Temp
« on: July 10, 2017, 04:08:12 PM »
Hello:

A question regarding yeast fermentation temp and manufacturer recommended ranges.  I brew all grain and use White Labs yeasts with a starter.  I note from reading the forum that many of you start your primary fermentation a little below the temperature range recommended by the manufacturer.  I'm curious why you do that.  I use WLP001 for many beers and While Labs indicates it has an optimum temperature range of 68 to 73 degrees.  I usually start my primary at the bottom of the range and move the temp up over the primary fermentation, staying in White Labs recommended range.

Understanding the brewing process is one of my attractions to the hobby, so I'd be interested your input on primary fermentation temps and manufacturer's optimum recommendations.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19606
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 04:14:10 PM »
I do it because I've discovered through experience that I prefer the beer I make when it's fermented below the manufacturer's recommended range.  I know that the range recommended for WY1450 is higher than I told them it should be, and higher than I like to run it.  But it comes down to personal preference.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline mainebrewer

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 421
  • Palermo, Maine
    • View Profile
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 04:16:13 PM »
I run WLP001 at 62-64 degrees because I've found that it produces a cleaner fermentation profile at those temps versus the manuf recommended temps.
BJCP Certified

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 04:20:54 PM »
Same here, Denny. And FWIW I like 1450 around 62-64F. As for Belgian strains for example, I feel like they miss on their temp recommendations. The first 2 or 3 days @ 63-64F before raising temp makes beer a lot more like the famous Belgian examples IMO. Too warm with those strains and it's easy to get an ester/phenol bomb. Too warm and foam is affected negatively as well.
Jon H.

Offline dmtaylor

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3332
  • Two Rivers, WI
    • View Profile
    • Manty Malters - Meet the Malters! - Dave Taylor
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2017, 04:22:37 PM »
I recall a theory that conditions in a commercial brewery setting are somewhat different than for homebrewers, such that the product you get from a fermentation temperature of like 68 F in a commercial setting might equate better with a ferm temp of a few degrees cooler like 65 F in a homebrew setting.  Since the yeast manufacturers serve commercial breweries at a greater volume than homebrewers, it might make sense to subtract a few degrees at home from whatever they recommend for the big boys.

I'm not sure where this came from or if it's accurate, but it's certainly food for thought and exploration.

The other big reason many homebrewers these days start the fermentations cool and then let it rise later is that it's been promoted by Jamil Zainasheff on the Brewing Network for 10 years, and he's very highly respected, and right wrong or indifferent, he literally helped write the book on "Yeast".
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19606
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 05:01:07 PM »
I recall a theory that conditions in a commercial brewery setting are somewhat different than for homebrewers, such that the product you get from a fermentation temperature of like 68 F in a commercial setting might equate better with a ferm temp of a few degrees cooler like 65 F in a homebrew setting.  Since the yeast manufacturers serve commercial breweries at a greater volume than homebrewers, it might make sense to subtract a few degrees at home from whatever they recommend for the big boys.

I'm not sure where this came from or if it's accurate, but it's certainly food for thought and exploration.

I've never heard this and can't figure out why it would be.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 05:09:58 PM »
I recall a theory that conditions in a commercial brewery setting are somewhat different than for homebrewers, such that the product you get from a fermentation temperature of like 68 F in a commercial setting might equate better with a ferm temp of a few degrees cooler like 65 F in a homebrew setting.  Since the yeast manufacturers serve commercial breweries at a greater volume than homebrewers, it might make sense to subtract a few degrees at home from whatever they recommend for the big boys.

I'm not sure where this came from or if it's accurate, but it's certainly food for thought and exploration.

I've never heard this and can't figure out why it would be.
Really? I've heard this countless times. Hydrostatic pressure from the column of wort is what people most often cite as the cause.

Offline dmtaylor

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3332
  • Two Rivers, WI
    • View Profile
    • Manty Malters - Meet the Malters! - Dave Taylor
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2017, 05:16:57 PM »
I recall a theory that conditions in a commercial brewery setting are somewhat different than for homebrewers, such that the product you get from a fermentation temperature of like 68 F in a commercial setting might equate better with a ferm temp of a few degrees cooler like 65 F in a homebrew setting.  Since the yeast manufacturers serve commercial breweries at a greater volume than homebrewers, it might make sense to subtract a few degrees at home from whatever they recommend for the big boys.

I'm not sure where this came from or if it's accurate, but it's certainly food for thought and exploration.

I've never heard this and can't figure out why it would be.
Really? I've heard this countless times. Hydrostatic pressure from the column of wort is what people most often cite as the cause.

Yes, I believe that's what I'd heard.

Perhaps the overall average quality of homebrews would be kicked up a notch or two if we could all ferment in 9-foot tall by 4" wide fermenters (yup, that's 5 gallons)!
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4360
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2017, 06:47:46 PM »
I've heard the exact same thing, here on this forum in fact.

I also believe that's the theory behind fermenting in pressurized vessels (ie. the pressure helps to suppress the formation of esters and lets you ferment warmer).

I have no experience with pressurized fermentations beyond reading about them, so take that into consideration.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19606
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2017, 06:55:55 PM »
I've heard the exact same thing, here on this forum in fact.

I also believe that's the theory behind fermenting in pressurized vessels (ie. the pressure helps to suppress the formation of esters and lets you ferment warmer).

I have no experience with pressurized fermentations beyond reading about them, so take that into consideration.

Yeah, I've heard that, too.  In my limited trials with fermenting under pressure in a corny (maybe 3 times) I haven't found that to be the case.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4360
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2017, 06:58:28 PM »
I've heard the exact same thing, here on this forum in fact.

I also believe that's the theory behind fermenting in pressurized vessels (ie. the pressure helps to suppress the formation of esters and lets you ferment warmer).

I have no experience with pressurized fermentations beyond reading about them, so take that into consideration.

Yeah, I've heard that, too.  In my limited trials with fermenting under pressure in a corny (maybe 3 times) I haven't found that to be the case.

You have at least three times the experience I have.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline foxburggolf

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Still learning
    • View Profile
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2017, 11:46:40 PM »
Thanks to all for the responses.  Guess I'll be trying lower temps for the next several brews.  Do you apply the lower temps for all the yeasts you use or is it yeast specific?

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 12:14:26 AM »
Do what makes the beer you like to drink. I like Chico at 66-67, others way lower. Try it and see, but don't worry. I'm

Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3175
    • View Profile
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 02:53:10 PM »
A fairly simple reason is that it gives some flex on temperature while fermentation is dumping out heat. If you have really tight fermentation temperature control you could probably set it at your desired max temperature and let it go.

This is not new advice. I'm currently parsing through an English brewing book from the early nineteenth century that talks about the need to do exactly this, for this reason. This is pre-mechanical refrigeration so they were working with the available resources. As an aside, the author suggests max temperatures for these English ales around 80-90F (pitching about 15 degrees below) during primary fermentation.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing

Offline bayareabrewer

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • View Profile
Re: Yeast Fermentation Temp
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 03:17:16 PM »
Thanks to all for the responses.  Guess I'll be trying lower temps for the next several brews.  Do you apply the lower temps for all the yeasts you use or is it yeast specific?
strain specific. And remember, the info you are getting here are opinions formed through trial and error, not gospel. I like the chico strain around 68.