Author Topic: Altbier  (Read 1268 times)

Offline Brewtopalonian

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Altbier
« on: July 13, 2017, 10:38:04 PM »
Hello everyone!  This is my first post on here.  I recently dove head first into home brewing.  I should say that I've brewed extracts several years ago, and even switched to partial grain and now have fully committed to full grain brewing.  I don't have all of my own equipment yet, but my buddy has one hell of a set-up!  We are brewing 5.5 gallon batches and kegging to soda kegs.  We fly-sparge in a 10 gal water cooler with a false bottom.  Okay, so now that the background is done, I've brewed several clones and have finally decided to try my hand at recipe creation.  I've decided to try my first altbier and would love some feedback from you guys.  Anything that stands out to you as good / bad, please let me know your thoughts/opinions.  Thanks!

Octobier fest Altbier v1

Grist Bill:
8 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4 66.7 %
2 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 5 16.7 %
1 lbs Caramel Wheat Malt (46.0 SRM) Grain 6 8.3 %
1 lbs Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 7 8.3 %

Hops Schedule:
1.00 oz Perle [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 27.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 5.9 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 10 -
1.00 oz Spalt Spalter [3.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 11 5.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Hersbrucker [2.75 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

Water:
15.00 gal Salt Lake City, UT Water 1 -
1.50 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
1.20 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -


Yeast:
1.0 pkg Alt (Omega #OYL-001) Yeast 12

Mash Process:
Single infusion, medium body, fly sparge

Thanks in advance for your critique!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 01:12:21 PM by Brewtopalonian »
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 12:38:02 PM »
Adding minerals to water is reinheitsgebot compliant. Many German breweries do that and other water adjustments, but they often perform that addition outside the brewhouse. Don't fret about this.

With respect to your recipe, I find that Alt comes out too malty and rich with that high a percentage of munich malt. Somewhere less than 50% munich tends to be more balanced and drinkable.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 12:45:03 PM »
That is doing to be one malty Altbier, more like a Northern German Alt than a Duesseldorfer Alt. Is there a certain commercial Alt you are trying to make? The reason I ask is that you can make a 100% Munich malt Altbier if you want, and it will be a nice beer (I think I did one of those years back). The trick is to get enough bitterness to balance the finish.

Yourhop selections are good.

As for the water and Reinheitsgebot, you will still be in the RHG. It just says "water", not what type of water. German Brewers treat their water. CaCl2 and Gypsum are allowed and used.

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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Brewtopalonian

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 01:06:12 PM »
Adding minerals to water is reinheitsgebot compliant. Many German breweries do that and other water adjustments, but they often perform that addition outside the brewhouse. Don't fret about this.

With respect to your recipe, I find that Alt comes out too malty and rich with that high a percentage of munich malt. Somewhere less than 50% munich tends to be more balanced and drinkable.
Awesome thanks for the info. What would you recommend as a base malt for the Alt?
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Offline Brewtopalonian

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 01:10:58 PM »
That is doing to be one malty Altbier, more like a Northern German Alt than a Duesseldorfer Alt. Is there a certain commercial Alt you are trying to make? The reason I ask is that you can make a 100% Munich malt Altbier if you want, and it will be a nice beer (I think I did one of those years back). The trick is to get enough bitterness to balance the finish.

Yourhop selections are good.

As for the water and Reinheitsgebot, you will still be in the RHG. It just says "water", not what type of water. German Brewers treat their water. CaCl2 and Gypsum are allowed and used.
Awesome, this is great feedback guys!  I don't have a particular Altbier that I'm trying to recreate.  The purpose of this is to create a beer within the standards of the style guidelines and come out with a great drinkable beer that I created.  I guess that's always the idea. I'm just getting into recipe creation and this is a good learning tool for me.

That said, what base malt might you recommend so that I don't have too much "malt" flavor?

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2017, 01:35:13 PM »
That is doing to be one malty Altbier, more like a Northern German Alt than a Duesseldorfer Alt. Is there a certain commercial Alt you are trying to make? The reason I ask is that you can make a 100% Munich malt Altbier if you want, and it will be a nice beer (I think I did one of those years back). The trick is to get enough bitterness to balance the finish.

Yourhop selections are good.

As for the water and Reinheitsgebot, you will still be in the RHG. It just says "water", not what type of water. German Brewers treat their water. CaCl2 and Gypsum are allowed and used.
Awesome, this is great feedback guys!  I don't have a particular Altbier that I'm trying to recreate.  The purpose of this is to create a beer within the standards of the style guidelines and come out with a great drinkable beer that I created.  I guess that's always the idea. I'm just getting into recipe creation and this is a good learning tool for me.

That said, what base malt might you recommend so that I don't have too much "malt" flavor?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

German Pils Malt would be my choice for the base. Use Munich malt in the 30-40% range. Maybe 5-7.5% specialty malts (caramunich and color malts).

Zum Uerige uses no Munich malt. Pils, A smidge of caraMunich, and color Malt. They do have an involved mash schedule.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Brewtopalonian

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 02:44:05 PM »
That is doing to be one malty Altbier, more like a Northern German Alt than a Duesseldorfer Alt. Is there a certain commercial Alt you are trying to make? The reason I ask is that you can make a 100% Munich malt Altbier if you want, and it will be a nice beer (I think I did one of those years back). The trick is to get enough bitterness to balance the finish.

Yourhop selections are good.

As for the water and Reinheitsgebot, you will still be in the RHG. It just says "water", not what type of water. German Brewers treat their water. CaCl2 and Gypsum are allowed and used.
Awesome, this is great feedback guys!  I don't have a particular Altbier that I'm trying to recreate.  The purpose of this is to create a beer within the standards of the style guidelines and come out with a great drinkable beer that I created.  I guess that's always the idea. I'm just getting into recipe creation and this is a good learning tool for me.

That said, what base malt might you recommend so that I don't have too much "malt" flavor?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

German Pils Malt would be my choice for the base. Use Munich malt in the 30-40% range. Maybe 5-7.5% specialty malts (caramunich and color malts).

Zum Uerige uses no Munich malt. Pils, A smidge of caraMunich, and color Malt. They do have an involved mash schedule.
Awesome thanks!  I'll make the adjustments in beersmith and see what it gives me.

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Offline goschman

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2017, 02:44:27 PM »
Here is the recipe I have saved for Zum Uerige on my system. If you search you can find more detail in older threads. The grain and hop amounts might be slightly different.

I always assumed that Alts consisted of high percentages of Munich malt. If I was to brew my own I would still include at least 20% out of personal preference.

96.25% pilsner
2.5% caramunich III
1.25% carafa III

20 g Mittelfruh 6.5% 60 min
13 g Perle 7.5% 60 min
32 g Spalt 5% 20 min
(With the exception of Perle, I don't get hops with that high of a AA% so I need to use more)

OG 1.049
FG 1.009
~43 IBU
~10 SRM

WY1007
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 02:50:08 PM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Watermelon Cider         

Fermenting: Kolsch
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 03:57:31 PM »
Here is the recipe I have saved for Zum Uerige on my system. If you search you can find more detail in older threads. The grain and hop amounts might be slightly different.

I always assumed that Alts consisted of high percentages of Munich malt. If I was to brew my own I would still include at least 20% out of personal preference.

96.25% pilsner
2.5% caramunich III
1.25% carafa III

20 g Mittelfruh 6.5% 60 min
13 g Perle 7.5% 60 min
32 g Spalt 5% 20 min
(With the exception of Perle, I don't get hops with that high of a AA% so I need to use more)

OG 1.049
FG 1.009
~43 IBU
~10 SRM

WY1007
Zum Uerige is my favorite, but it has the least malt flavor and the most bitterness.

Brewtopalonian, Schlüssel and Schumacher have mor Munich malt character. You could google Jamils Cowboy Alt to get something in the way of Schlüssel.

You can go higher on the Munich if you want.
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Offline goschman

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2017, 04:11:27 PM »
Zum Uerige is my favorite, but it has the least malt flavor and the most bitterness.

Brewtopalonian, Schlüssel and Schumacher have mor Munich malt character. You could google Jamils Cowboy Alt to get something in the way of Schlüssel.

You can go higher on the Munich if you want.

Yeah I have never brewed that recipe but want to for comparison sake. I have had Grimm Brothers version which I believe has a GABF medal in the category but is on the other side of the spectrum.

I have been wanting to brew a more traditional alt but I usually end up with an Alt influenced Amber Ale because I my propensity to hybridize. I digress...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 04:14:55 PM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Watermelon Cider         

Fermenting: Kolsch
Up Next: Summer Ale, Gose

Offline Brewtopalonian

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2017, 04:28:18 PM »
I guess I'm going for a malt forward Alt with some spice and very subtle stonefruit. I want good head retention and medium body. I've adjust my grist bill to be:

8.75# German Pils
2# Munich
1# Caramunich
.25# Carafa I

After changing the Grist bill significantly I'm sitting at:

1.060 OG
38.3 IBUs
16.1 SRM
6.1% est. ABV

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Offline goschman

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2017, 04:32:58 PM »
I guess I'm going for a malt forward Alt with some spice and very subtle stonefruit. I want good head retention and medium body. I've adjust my grist bill to be:

8.75# German Pils
2# Munich
1# Caramunich
.25# Carafa I

After changing the Grist bill significantly I'm sitting at:

1.060 OG
38.3 IBUs
16.1 SRM
6.1% est. ABV

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Just out of curiosity, where are you hoping to get stonefruit from?
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Watermelon Cider         

Fermenting: Kolsch
Up Next: Summer Ale, Gose

Offline Brewtopalonian

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2017, 04:44:40 PM »
I guess I'm going for a malt forward Alt with some spice and very subtle stonefruit. I want good head retention and medium body. I've adjust my grist bill to be:

8.75# German Pils
2# Munich
1# Caramunich
.25# Carafa I

After changing the Grist bill significantly I'm sitting at:

1.060 OG
38.3 IBUs
16.1 SRM
6.1% est. ABV

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Just out of curiosity, where are you hoping to get stonefruit from?

The Hersbrucker dry hops? Or am I incorrect of that assessment?
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2017, 05:07:28 PM »
Hersbrucker are more spicy and slightly floral, as opposed to stonefruit IMO.


Edit - I saw you say dry hops. Alt really isn't a beer to dry hop FWIW. Not sure if you meant that.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 05:12:29 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

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Re: Altbier
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2017, 05:18:41 PM »
Hersbrucker are more spicy and slightly floral, as opposed to stonefruit IMO.


Edit - I saw you say dry hops. Alt really isn't a beer to dry hop FWIW. Not sure if you meant that.

Hmm, okay.  Well, back to the drawing board.  I love experimentation so I might try something different.
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