Author Topic: Imperial Rustic  (Read 9006 times)

Offline narcout

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2017, 03:06:59 pm »
I finally got around to tapping this keg.  I'm not really picking up bubblegum anymore.  The finish is very nice: dry and tart with some citrus (grapefruit and lemon?).

For having the same final gravity, it tastes a lot dryer to me than would a similar beer fermented with 3711. 

I'm only on my first pint, but I think I prefer the flavor of 3711 or 3724.  This seems a bit more mild, but maybe I should try fermenting it warmer or using it in a blend.
Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC

Offline narcout

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2017, 09:48:58 am »
Does anyone else find that this yeast drops out really quickly?


Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC

Offline stpug

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2017, 10:01:14 am »
Does anyone else find that this yeast drops out really quickly?



3726 drops pretty bright for me, but is somewhat dependent on grain choice usage too.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2017, 10:04:38 am »
Yeah,  I think it drops pretty easily compared to most saison strains.
Jon H.

Offline brewsumore

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2017, 12:06:41 am »
I was brewing with a chest crud and somehow let my starters of WY3724 (started the night before) get up to one at 97F, the other at 101F, by leaving the temp controller probe outside of the fridge for an hour or two before pitching.  doh!

Anyway, pitch temp in each of 2 buckets including starter + one additional activator packet (59% viability) into 1.055 SG wort, was at 92F.  I held it via 2-stage temp controller and thermowell to 91F for a day and then dropped it to 90F, and as expected both fermenters stalled at 1.032, as recorded on day 5 of the ferment.

FWIW, it was Mosher's Saison Buffoon recipe, mashed at 149F for 90 minutes, and 10% piloncillo sugar added at the beginning of the boil.

One day later I totally lucked out and from my LHBS got two cans of 4-days-since-canned Rustic Saison and pitched them pretty cold (1 per 5.5 gal bucket), per their pitching directions, and since then have maintained the 90F ferment beer temp.

3 days later beer was at 1.016, and 2 days after that, which is today, the beer is at 1.007, and I gently stirred both fermenters for good luck and to hurry it along at the high temp on day 11 of the ferment.

The co-ferment is nice although the Rustic dominates.  The hydro sample today is still quite clean flavor, and the main impression now is that juicy fruity flavor, plus some background flavor from limited additions of orange peel, coriander and grains of paradise added last 5 minutes of the boil.  Based on reading this thread I expect the beer will finish at around 1.004 in 2 or 3 more days, and probably no more than 4 days from now I'm expecting to cold crash a day or 2 and then keg and carbonate in the kegerator, and let it condition for at least 3 weeks.  Do you think that after it's carbed in the kegerator that it would be better to condition in the wine cellar at 57F, or in the kegerator at 34F?  Or would that matter?  I expect that flavors would complex and come together more quickly at the higher temp when conditioning.

I'm used to getting some bubblegum from the 3724, but don't get that any more after the co-ferment yeast addition.

I wish I had not gotten distracted with the temp controller probe on brew day, but I sure hope that at this temp it will still yield a clean enough flavored beer.  So far I'm satisfied that I'll enjoy the final beer.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 12:12:49 am by brewsumore »

Offline zwiller

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2017, 10:21:55 am »
I am with you (and there are studies that prove this) that esterification occurs more rapidly at warmer temperatures but IMO Blaugies doesn't really need it.  That said, I find many other strains tend to be quite "hot" for awhile and need the extra time> I once got into a long PM with a very experienced belgian brewer and I picked his brain how to achieve brewing them as good as they do and he said, "stay out of the beer" (age it).  He said 6mo min preferable a year.  I did a tripel and bottled a dozen/kegged the rest.  Tasted pretty dang good young but forced myself to keep a few 6mos and SOB he was right.  The esters popped and it was more "belgian" for lack of a better term. 
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline Stevie

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2017, 10:54:14 am »
I agree with the waiting. If you ferment hot, wait. It's worth it

Offline brewsumore

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2017, 10:57:33 am »
Thanks guys.  I'll try to be patient.   ::)

Offline stpug

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2017, 12:50:58 pm »
I may be down the wrong path here, but my experience with 3726 (Blaugies), which should be the same as Rustic, is that fermented fairly warm (83-90F) will produce elevated esters.  Now, I'm sure this is somewhat dependent on overall recipe composition, but even a simple lager-like recipe produces the classic fruity, bubblegum esters with present-but-subdued phenolics very quickly.  And by "very quickly" I mean like 4-5 days.  I generally ferment 3726 at 85-90F (depending on recipe formulation) and am kegging on day 2-5, after which it is either (previously) force carbed or (now) keg conditioned/spunded until proper pressure, and the overall yeast characteristics are very apparent in these beers.  The only time I've found a subdued yeast character was with a cool (for 3726) ferment in the low 70s.

I also have a few bottles of a simple, average saison I brewed 12 months ago.  At the time it was as I described above, but now it's just lack luster.  Most of the estery character has faded to a level too low to truly be considered a "saison" (at least in my book).

This is just the experiences I've had with 3726 and I can see it differs from other experiences.
That's homebrewing :D
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 12:53:50 pm by stpug »

Offline zwiller

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2017, 01:13:28 pm »
I may be down the wrong path here, but my experience with 3726 (Blaugies), which should be the same as Rustic, is that fermented fairly warm (83-90F) will produce elevated esters.  Now, I'm sure this is somewhat dependent on overall recipe composition, but even a simple lager-like recipe produces the classic fruity, bubblegum esters with present-but-subdued phenolics very quickly.  And by "very quickly" I mean like 4-5 days.  I generally ferment 3726 at 85-90F (depending on recipe formulation) and am kegging on day 2-5, after which it is either (previously) force carbed or (now) keg conditioned/spunded until proper pressure, and the overall yeast characteristics are very apparent in these beers.  The only time I've found a subdued yeast character was with a cool (for 3726) ferment in the low 70s.

I also have a few bottles of a simple, average saison I brewed 12 months ago.  At the time it was as I described above, but now it's just lack luster.  Most of the estery character has faded to a level too low to truly be considered a "saison" (at least in my book).

This is just the experiences I've had with 3726 and I can see it differs from other experiences.
That's homebrewing :D

Not at all...  Looks like I wasn't clear and my rant about aging was misplaced  ;D but I tried to say Blaugies does not need aging> "Blaugies doesn't really need it".  I totally agree with your findings and the quick turn time is one big reason I love this yeast. 
Sam
Sandusky, OH

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2017, 01:33:36 pm »
I may be down the wrong path here, but my experience with 3726 (Blaugies), which should be the same as Rustic, is that fermented fairly warm (83-90F) will produce elevated esters.  Now, I'm sure this is somewhat dependent on overall recipe composition, but even a simple lager-like recipe produces the classic fruity, bubblegum esters with present-but-subdued phenolics very quickly.  And by "very quickly" I mean like 4-5 days.  I generally ferment 3726 at 85-90F (depending on recipe formulation) and am kegging on day 2-5, after which it is either (previously) force carbed or (now) keg conditioned/spunded until proper pressure, and the overall yeast characteristics are very apparent in these beers.  The only time I've found a subdued yeast character was with a cool (for 3726) ferment in the low 70s.

I also have a few bottles of a simple, average saison I brewed 12 months ago.  At the time it was as I described above, but now it's just lack luster.  Most of the estery character has faded to a level too low to truly be considered a "saison" (at least in my book).

This is just the experiences I've had with 3726 and I can see it differs from other experiences.
That's homebrewing :D

Not at all...  Looks like I wasn't clear and my rant about aging was misplaced  ;D but I tried to say Blaugies does not need aging> "Blaugies doesn't really need it".  I totally agree with your findings and the quick turn time is one big reason I love this yeast. 


Agreed
Jon H.

Offline brewsumore

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2017, 01:41:26 pm »
I know a lot can change from hydro sample to conditioned beer, but based on my last couple hydro samples I'm hoping that the Bluagies isn't a little one dimensional.

I realize that fermentation temps and schedule, yeast health, etc. all play into what you can squeeze out of a yeast in terms of getting a full spectrum, i.e. earthiness, spice, fruit, esters and phenols, of course specific characteristics of the yeast(s) used.

But would any of you characterize the Blaugies fermented at high temp as a bit one dimensional - as in juicy fruity?

I'm hoping the yeast profile flavors will become more complex than what I'm tasting now.

Offline Stevie

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Imperial Rustic
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2017, 02:53:48 pm »
My high temp experience is with 3724 and 3711. I haven't bottled in a while, so haven't taken Rustic over 80° and even then left it relatively cool until day 3.

Offline brewsumore

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2017, 04:41:35 pm »
I would be surprised if you haven't been dialing in closer to the sweet spot, and gathered from others' posts too.  I just figured I might as well keep it high, also in hopes that the 3724 would kick back in for more of a duplex co-ferment.  I'm sure it will be fine and good though.  I'll report back in a few weeks.

Offline stpug

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Re: Imperial Rustic
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2017, 05:46:16 pm »
I may be down the wrong path here, but my experience with 3726 (Blaugies), which should be the same as Rustic, is that fermented fairly warm (83-90F) will produce elevated esters.  Now, I'm sure this is somewhat dependent on overall recipe composition, but even a simple lager-like recipe produces the classic fruity, bubblegum esters with present-but-subdued phenolics very quickly.  And by "very quickly" I mean like 4-5 days.  I generally ferment 3726 at 85-90F (depending on recipe formulation) and am kegging on day 2-5, after which it is either (previously) force carbed or (now) keg conditioned/spunded until proper pressure, and the overall yeast characteristics are very apparent in these beers.  The only time I've found a subdued yeast character was with a cool (for 3726) ferment in the low 70s.

I also have a few bottles of a simple, average saison I brewed 12 months ago.  At the time it was as I described above, but now it's just lack luster.  Most of the estery character has faded to a level too low to truly be considered a "saison" (at least in my book).

This is just the experiences I've had with 3726 and I can see it differs from other experiences.
That's homebrewing :D

Not at all...  Looks like I wasn't clear and my rant about aging was misplaced  ;D but I tried to say Blaugies does not need aging> "Blaugies doesn't really need it".  I totally agree with your findings and the quick turn time is one big reason I love this yeast.

Ahh! Very good then; my findings seem to match yours fairly well.  I definitely misunderstood your earlier post, and that's not the first or last time that happens to me ;D.  It's reassuring to know that others experiences are similar to mine.  I've still not tried 3724 simply because I can't kick the Blaugies train  8)