Author Topic: Style Questions for competition  (Read 744 times)

Offline David

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Style Questions for competition
« on: August 07, 2017, 06:42:27 AM »
I have just bottled a milk stout, was thinking of entering it into a local competition (my first) but found that the style I had originally set it to does not match the guidelines used for this competition.
It is currently listed as an American Stout (13E) by the brewing software I am using, all the stats fall into the ranges for this style:

OG : 1.072
FG: 1.020
ABV: 6.8%
IBU: 39
SRM: 34

The issue I have, is the American Stout (13E) is not listed as a choice when registering for the competition, and the specs do not seem to fall into another category, at least not well.
This has also brought up other questions as well:
Now I am not really sure how to classify this recipe, I used Maris Otter for a portion of my base malt, a German 2-row as the balance of my base. Northern Brewer, Tettnanger, and Perle hops, Wyeast Irish Ale 1084. Also added lactose(late boil), cocoa nibs(boil and secondary) (, and coconut(secondary). What would be the best classification?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 07:01:36 AM »
If it tastes more like a milk stout(and I assume it does), enter it as a milk stout. American stouts shouldn't have that level of residual sweetness, and often have much higher IBU. It'll score better as a milk stout.
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Offline David

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 07:18:08 AM »
If it tastes more like a milk stout(and I assume it does), enter it as a milk stout. American stouts shouldn't have that level of residual sweetness, and often have much higher IBU. It'll score better as a milk stout.

Logical, however not a choice. Here is the list of all stouts for registration:

15B Irish Stout
15C Irish Extra Stout
16A Sweet Stout
16B Oatmeal Stout
16C Tropical Stout
16D Foreign Extra Stout
20B American Stout
20C Imperial Stout

It is listing an American Stout as 20B, however the specs on that are asking for American base malts, and American yeast. As you can see from the above list Milk Stout is not available.

Offline goschman

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 07:19:08 AM »
If it tastes more like a milk stout(and I assume it does), enter it as a milk stout. American stouts shouldn't have that level of residual sweetness, and often have much higher IBU. It'll score better as a milk stout.

Logical, however not a choice. Here is the list of all stouts for registration:

15B Irish Stout
15C Irish Extra Stout
16A Sweet Stout
16B Oatmeal Stout
16C Tropical Stout
16D Foreign Extra Stout
20B American Stout
20C Imperial Stout

It is listing an American Stout as 20B, however the specs on that are asking for American base malts, and American yeast. As you can see from the above list Milk Stout is not available.

Sweet Stout and Milk Stout are synonymous.
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Offline David

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 07:21:26 AM »
Sweet Stout and Milk Stout are synonymous.

Unfortunately, the OG and ABV of mine is way off the chart to be classified as a Sweet Stout...

Offline udubdawg

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 07:31:03 AM »
Also added lactose(late boil), cocoa nibs(boil and secondary) (, and coconut(secondary). What would be the best classification?

looks like SHV. (30A. Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer)

Judges will expect fairly significant hop character with American Stout.  if that is a good descriptor, then identify it as "American Stout with lactose, coconut and cocoa nibs" on the specialty info line.  if it's not very hoppy, I'd go more generic on the specialty info.  If no one can taste the lactose, don't identify it.  Such is the competition life...
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 07:33:15 AM by udubdawg »

Offline David

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 07:53:21 AM »
Also added lactose(late boil), cocoa nibs(boil and secondary) (, and coconut(secondary). What would be the best classification?

looks like SHV. (30A. Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer)

Judges will expect fairly significant hop character with American Stout.  if that is a good descriptor, then identify it as "American Stout with lactose, coconut and cocoa nibs" on the specialty info line.  if it's not very hoppy, I'd go more generic on the specialty info.  If no one can taste the lactose, don't identify it.  Such is the competition life...
What would be your idea of "not very hoppy"? At 39 IBU it is in the midrange of the American Stout ranges. Although 39 is not very hoppy

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 08:02:45 AM »
Missed the cocoa nibs /coconut thing - I'd go SHV as well. 39 IBU on a 1.072 beer isn't especially bitter at all.  Provided there aren't noticeable late hop additions, SHV.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 08:04:20 AM by HoosierBrew »
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 08:10:03 AM »
You need to be able to evaluate your own beer well enough to decide where it goes.  In competition the beer isn't what the recipe says it is, but how it tastes and smells to a judge.  When you taste the beer, is the impression that it is fairly hoppy?  Do you notice hop flavor and aroma immediately?  How bitter does it taste? How does the bitterness balance the rest of the beer?  Is it up front?  Aggressive? Sharp?  Does it linger into aftertaste or disappear after you swallow?  Is it mostly hidden by malt or other flavors?  Don't just look at the IBU.  Roast malts may be adding some bitterness here, and depending on your water the impression of bitterness can vary too.

Understand that everything with "American" in the name is (I'm going to say unfortunately) expected by the average judge to be hoppier than it probably truly needs to be.  I would not enter something as American Stout on the low end of the ranges listed below. Note the repeated use of the word "aggressive" or "assertive"...


Overall Impression: ...a more aggressive American hop character and
bitterness.
Aroma: Medium to very low hop aroma, often with a citrusy or resiny character.
Flavor: Low to high hop flavor, generally citrusy or resiny.
Breweries express individuality through varying
the roasted malt profile, malt sweetness and flavor, and the
amount of finishing hops used. Generally has bolder roasted
malt flavors and hopping than other traditional stouts (except
Imperial Stouts).
History: A modern craft beer and homebrew style that applied
an aggressive American hoping regime to a strong traditional
English or Irish stout. The homebrew version was previously
known as West Coast Stout, which is a common naming
scheme for a more highly-hopped beer.
Style Comparison: Like a hoppy, bitter, strongly roasted
Extra or Export Stout. Much more roast and body than a Black
IPA. Bigger, stronger versions belong in the Russian Imperial
Stout style. Stronger and more assertive, particularly in the
dark malt/grain additions and hop character, than American Porter

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2017, 02:35:13 PM »
With cacao and coconut, it's Spice Herb Veggie.
Dave

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Offline ethinson

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 05:01:32 AM »

What would be your idea of "not very hoppy"? At 39 IBU it is in the midrange of the American Stout ranges. Although 39 is not very hoppy

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This is all very dependent on style.. I think they are saying "not very hoppy for the style"

39 BU would be way to low for an American IPA which is somewhere in the 60-100 range if I remember correctly, but 39 BU would also be "very hoppy" for an American Light Lager, which is in the 3-20 range (Coors Light is 2-4 IBU).

There's also flavor component to that as well.  American Barleywines are often in the 100+ range in IBU to balance out 30+ plato of sugar, but they often don't taste "hoppy".


Also, just as a heads up, download and look at the 2015 BJCP Style Guidelines.  The last update they added several new styles and rearranged some things.  The 13E American Stout from 2008 and the 20A American Stout from 2015 should be pretty much the same, but it would help you to have the latest guidelines. If you're using software like BeerSmith you can also update the new styles into your software.
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 05:59:11 AM »

What would be your idea of "not very hoppy"? At 39 IBU it is in the midrange of the American Stout ranges. Although 39 is not very hoppy

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This is all very dependent on style.. I think they are saying "not very hoppy for the style"

39 BU would be way to low for an American IPA which is somewhere in the 60-100 range if I remember correctly, but 39 BU would also be "very hoppy" for an American Light Lager, which is in the 3-20 range (Coors Light is 2-4 IBU).


just fyi, the guidelines say 40-70.  I will just say that style Hop Creep is real and can be annoying at times.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Style Questions for competition
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 07:53:40 AM »
just fyi, the guidelines say 40-70.  I will just say that style Hop Creep is real and can be annoying at times.

The world is full of Hop Creeps.  I wish there were more Malt Creeps like me.  Someday maybe.
Dave

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