Author Topic: I think I have to have this....  (Read 2133 times)

Offline JT

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2017, 03:08:28 AM »
So when the probe needs replaced do you have to replace the whole thing?

Yep. That's my largest concern with this otherwise very good product.
Deal breaker!  What is the probe life?  2 years?

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Offline brewsumore

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2017, 05:36:19 AM »
I'm still doing fine with ColorpHast strips.

Offline Slow Willy

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2019, 07:59:46 PM »
Just brushing the dust off of some older HALO pH meter posts as I am interested in getting one for myself. For those who have been using them when this post was created, are you still having the same good experience with months gone by?

Thanks
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Offline HopDen

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2019, 12:26:10 AM »
There goes my New Years resolution

Offline mabrungard

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2019, 01:24:25 AM »
Still excellent performance. Definitely a quality instrument...just a questionable cost.
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Offline Slow Willy

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2019, 05:58:04 PM »
I read somewhere you can order the probe made for water instead of beer as long as you take all your readings at room temperature. The beer probe ($230) is made to withstand the higher temps. The water probe ($185) is not. I emailed their technical department and they confirmed what I read.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2019, 01:09:20 AM »
While you should NEVER take a wort pH measurement at anything but room temperature, I did look at that water probe and I'd say its not for anyone that wants it to last. It's an all-glass probe with a fully exposed bulb. I'd say it would last a day or so in brewery use. Buyer beware.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2019, 01:25:39 AM »
While you should NEVER take a wort pH measurement at anything but room temperature, I did look at that water probe and I'd say its not for anyone that wants it to last. It's an all-glass probe with a fully exposed bulb. I'd say it would last a day or so in brewery use. Buyer beware.

While I pull a sample from the recirculating stream at about 15 minutes in and let it cool to room temp, I always wondered why we cool the pH sample vs measure what the enzymes are experiencing (except for the fact that it would trash the probe prematurely).  Excuse my ignorance but why do we care what the wort pH is at room temp. We should care what the wort pH is at the mash temp. Shouldn’t we?


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Online Robert

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2019, 01:59:16 AM »
I think the short answer is pretty simple.  When the concept of pH was first invented and embraced by brewers in the 1920s, well before the invention of instruments using electroconductivity as a proxy, the only way to measure it was by reactions that had to be  carried out at room temperature.  Therefore the seminal research and texts cited pH of a room temperature sample.   For the rest of history, it has been easier to retain the convention than to go back and rewrite all the literature, or wonder whether a given text is citing "old style" or "new," etc.  And yet there has still been much confusion.

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Offline BrewBama

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2019, 03:00:41 AM »
Yeah, I’m confused — especially when reading past articles like this: https://byo.com/mr-wizard/setting-record-straight-mash-ph/

Bamforth’s range is: 5.3 to 5.8 (mashtemp) / 5.55 to 6.05 (room temp)

Briggs’ range is: 5.2 to 5.4 (mash temp) / 5.45 to 5.65 (room temp)

Kunze’s range is: 5.25 to 5.35 (mash temp) / 5.5 to 5.6 (room temp)

Lewis’ statement: 5.2 to 5.5 (mash temp) / 5.45 to 5.75 (room temp)

I guess my point is I should be looking for ~5.6 at room temp to feel pretty good that my enzymes are being comfortably cared for at ~5.3 (mash temp).


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Online Robert

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2019, 03:33:29 AM »
Yeah, most shocking to our trained sensibilities is Briggs et al., which sort of shifts the frame of reference -- giving us a mash temperature pH where we expect a room temperature one to be.  But FWIW, I've been targeting 5.5-5.6 (room temperature per Bru'n Water) in pale beers of late (haven't pushed it in dark ones yet, that's harder.) Results so far are favorable.  Probably we need to reassess everything,  like I said this has been largely set in stone for 100 years.   Maybe Briggs incorporates newer science.   I trust Bamforth does. Then that much maligned, but still awkwardly confused  Ashton Lewis article (didn't look, I presume  that's your link) is if only accidentally not far from the mark.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 03:44:06 AM by Robert »
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Online The Beerery

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I think I have to have this....
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2019, 03:56:47 AM »
I was flabbergasted at his “technical editing” of our byo article. He literally told me boiling water does not get rid of DO among many other known (apparently not by him) scientific facts..  It got to the point of me requesting a new editor.  It was literally rediculous. 

I not surprised one bit he completely missed the mark here as well.  Mr Wizard huh.  Mind blowing.


All of Kunze figures in his book are room temp... as are most of the rest of the sources you list.  I think you have some stuff flipped. 

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« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 04:00:34 AM by The Beerery »

Online Robert

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2019, 04:10:44 AM »
Briggs, et al., 2004 p. 115 "Infusion mashes are best carried out at pH 5.2-5.4 (mash temperature), and so will give cooled worts with pH values of about 5.5-5.8. It has been recommended that decoction mashes should not give worts with pH values less than 5.5"

Kunze 3.2.1.3.3 gives pH 5.5-5.6 (room temperature,  we must assume) as optimal as regards enzymes, but 3.2.3.1.8 advises reduction to 5.2 (again, we assume room temperature) to improve flavor stability, primarily by inhibiting LOX, which is of course less relevant with higher kilned malt or particular mash programs.  Sureley such a low mash pH is problematic with regard to protein coagulation,  hop utilization and other functions.   Kunze is complicated.   Again,  we probably need to reassess.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 05:07:52 AM by Robert »
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Offline Big Monk

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2019, 03:47:12 PM »
Yeah, I’m confused — especially when reading past articles like this: https://byo.com/mr-wizard/setting-record-straight-mash-ph/

Bamforth’s range is: 5.3 to 5.8 (mashtemp) / 5.55 to 6.05 (room temp)

Briggs’ range is: 5.2 to 5.4 (mash temp) / 5.45 to 5.65 (room temp)

Kunze’s range is: 5.25 to 5.35 (mash temp) / 5.5 to 5.6 (room temp)

Lewis’ statement: 5.2 to 5.5 (mash temp) / 5.45 to 5.75 (room temp)

I guess my point is I should be looking for ~5.6 at room temp to feel pretty good that my enzymes are being comfortably cared for at ~5.3 (mash temp).


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pH optima and targets are for room temp samples.

I thought this topic was put to bed? Obviously the variance in literature doesn’t help here but your target values should be measured at room temp.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 03:49:27 PM by Big Monk »
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Online Robert

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Re: I think I have to have this....
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2019, 05:39:25 PM »
Yes, but the point now is that we seem to have some differences on what those optima are.  The conventional wisdom around here is that pH should be somewhat lower (at room temperature of course) than the preponderance of the literature indicates.   And my experience is beginning to align with this.   Optimal room temperature pH 5.5-5.6, rather than 5.2-5.4.
Rob Stein
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