Author Topic: Extract vs juice vs flavoring  (Read 1485 times)

Offline BrewBama

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Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« on: August 16, 2017, 12:00:08 PM »
I've seen extracts, juice, and natural flavoring and wondered about the difference. I've read flavorings add a medicinal aftertaste and see they have several compounds vs real fruit but have not read much about extracts or juice. I think juice is 100% cold pressed fruit. Has anyone used these or other like products in beer?

https://www.olivenation.com/watermelon-extract.html

https://www.vitacost.com/elite-naturel-only100-organic-juice

http://shop.greatfermentations.com/category/s?keyword=Watermelon


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Offline txk54

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 12:20:24 PM »
I make a peach IPA and for the last batch I used the Amoretti artisan natural peach flavor. I probably never would have used it but I won it as a prize for placing in a comp. In the past I had used fresh peaches. The batch with the peach flavoring was easily the best. I'll definitely use it again. The nose was ripe peaches and the peach flavor melded well with the hops I used. I didn't pick up any artificial flavor but it is an IPA so the hops are the focus.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 12:56:57 PM »
Any kind of flavorings or extracts often taste fake.  Cherry flavoring can taste like Robitussen -- really disgusting inky flavor.  Others are just plain not good.  You could get lucky.... but you might not.

If you really want fruit in your beer, real fruit juices with minimal processing and no preservatives if possible are a great way to go.  One thing to be aware of though is that nearly all fruit juices are VERY high in acidity, and can add considerable tartness to your beer.  To help balance, it is wise to use a lot of caramel malts or unfermentable sugars such as lactose or maltodextrin to provide a little more sweetness and body.  If using the unfermentables, a good amount to start with is about 0.5 to 0.75 lb per 5 gallons of beer.

Cheers.
Dave

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Offline EnkAMania

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 03:24:33 PM »
For my watermelon beer, I just use straight watermelon.  For my strawberry and pineapple beers, I use a combination of puree and extract. 
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Offline zwiller

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 03:37:13 PM »
I gotta disagree with your here Dave.  GOOD extracts wipe the floor with real stuff.  Yes, in the past, extracts were made artificially and were nasty.  Nowadays, good extracts are made from high tech distillation of real fruit/etc and are all organic.  The key is sorting the good from the bad.  I am hesitant to generalize but I would wager a guess that an extract labelled "natural" might be considered good.  More LHBS are carrying these like the last link in OP.  I have not used Olive Nation but recall they are good.  I actually first heard of these good extracts from a pro brewer and he recommended Natures Flavors.  Since then, they are more options.  That being said, a number of brewers I respect use both real fruit and extract.  Adding real fruit gives a beer more acidity and some flavor but extract gives the fresh fruit flavor that people expect.  Sorry if some call it cheating.  I used to feel that way, but no longer. 

I will agree with you on adding non-fermentables.  Fruit beers need some sweetness to shine and neither fruit or extract gives you this.   
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Offline Bob357

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 04:10:54 PM »
Used 4 oz. blackberry flavoring in 5 gals. of hard cider and it is great. Just added it to the keg and gave it a few swirls to mix. No hassling with  a bunch of gooey puree or worrying about the extra fermentables. Since it can be added at packaging it's easy to add a little at a time until you get to the flavor you like.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2017, 04:58:57 PM »
I've used the Olive Nation apricot extract and found it to be very good. Very fresh flavor and aroma. It is an alcohol extract.

I do caution against purchasing extracts that are supplied in plastic bottles since I feel that they oxidize more easily. The Olive Nation products are in glass.
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Offline denny

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 06:26:50 PM »
Any kind of flavorings or extracts often taste fake.  Cherry flavoring can taste like Robitussen -- really disgusting inky flavor.  Others are just plain not good.  You could get lucky.... but you might not.

If you really want fruit in your beer, real fruit juices with minimal processing and no preservatives if possible are a great way to go.  One thing to be aware of though is that nearly all fruit juices are VERY high in acidity, and can add considerable tartness to your beer.  To help balance, it is wise to use a lot of caramel malts or unfermentable sugars such as lactose or maltodextrin to provide a little more sweetness and body.  If using the unfermentables, a good amount to start with is about 0.5 to 0.75 lb per 5 gallons of beer.

Cheers.

What that really says Dave is that you don't know where to source good extracts.  There's plenty of good stuff out there.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 07:55:33 PM »
What that really says Dave is that you don't know where to source good extracts.  There's plenty of good stuff out there.

Ahem.... okay.....

I do stand corrected.  Sure, there are likely good extracts out there.  It pays to be selective in your ingredients, and this goes for everything.
Dave

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2017, 08:08:13 PM »
What that really says Dave is that you don't know where to source good extracts.  There's plenty of good stuff out there.

Ahem.... okay.....

I do stand corrected.  Sure, there are likely good extracts out there.  It pays to be selective in your ingredients, and this goes for everything.


There are some good extracts out there (more than before), but IMO they're best used in tandem with real fruit. I don't see the Belgians forgoing real fruit in their best examples.
Jon H.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2017, 09:10:51 PM »
There are some good extracts out there (more than before), but IMO they're best used in tandem with real fruit. I don't see the Belgians forgoing real fruit in their best examples.

But, what's wrong with extract?!  ;)
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2017, 09:28:32 PM »
There are some good extracts out there (more than before), but IMO they're best used in tandem with real fruit. I don't see the Belgians forgoing real fruit in their best examples.

But, what's wrong with extract?!  ;)

If you get a good one, nothing.  What about the possibility that Belgians are sticking with fruit due to tradition, rather than extract quality?  There's really no proof either way.
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Offline zwiller

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2017, 09:32:29 PM »
I suggest you use places that have reviews listed and I gauge them.  I have used oooflavors.com with success.  They offer really small sizes and cheap shipping so you can test things before committing. 

If you want a final product to have a hint of fruit, real stuff could work but people and homebrewers expect it to taste EXACTLY like it's fresh counterpart.  I am trying to prevent frustration of brewers using real fruit and not getting the results they expect.

WRT to belgian fruit beers.  Aren't these backsweetened, and forced carbed (cheating)? 
Sam
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2017, 09:53:36 PM »
There are some good extracts out there (more than before), but IMO they're best used in tandem with real fruit. I don't see the Belgians forgoing real fruit in their best examples.

But, what's wrong with extract?!  ;)

In small doses along with fruit, nothing IMO. ;D.
Jon H.

Offline EnkAMania

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Re: Extract vs juice vs flavoring
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2017, 10:04:28 PM »

Quote
In small doses along with fruit, nothing IMO. ;D.

I agree with this.  Although using extract only, I may have come up with a recipe for a Crunch Berry beer
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