Author Topic: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils  (Read 2901 times)

Offline ultravista

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
    • View Profile
Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« on: September 15, 2017, 01:43:31 PM »
Does hop extract require a long boil time to extract bittering? I am building a light bodied IPA with a target boil time of 30 minutes. The plan is to add hop extract at the beginning of the boil.

Is 30 minutes sufficient for bittering? Will 30 minutes produce the same bittering level as 60 or 90 minutes?

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 01:47:49 PM »
I imagine the bittering will be like a 30 minute boil, just like normal leaf and pellets.

Offline ultravista

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
    • View Profile
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 01:53:47 PM »
I normally do a 60 minute boil with a long flameout cool down period. With a 6 gallon batch, the wort sits for at least an hour in the kettle with steeping hops thrown it @ 180 F.

The hot wort rest period should continue to extract bitterness, correct?

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 02:09:31 PM »
Sure, some

Offline ultravista

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
    • View Profile
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 02:22:27 PM »
What are your thoughts then on a 30 minute boil w/at least 30 minute cool down to 180F before adding the steeping hops?

Do you think the 30+30 will extract sufficient bittering compared to a 60 minute boil w/rapid cooling?

Online denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19942
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 02:24:22 PM »
I'm not sure I follow....why would you need to extract bitterness from hop extract?  Isn,t that the purpose of extract?  If it's isomerized, you don't need to boil at all to get bitterness.  If it's not, contact with hot wort should isomerize it almost instantly, shouldn't it?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 02:25:17 PM »
CO2 extract (hopshot/resin) is not isomorized. Why would it be different than pellets? They fall apart near instantly and the glands and resin are freely available.

Online denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19942
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 02:26:33 PM »
CO2 extract (hopshot/resin) is not isomorized.

Is that what he's using?  I didn't see that.  And wouldn't the isomerization happen very quickly?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6229
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 03:01:30 PM »
CO2 extract (hopshot/resin) is not isomorized.

Is that what he's using?  I didn't see that.  And wouldn't the isomerization happen very quickly?
Most of the extract targeted towards homebrewers is Hop Shot or similar and needs to be boiled to isomerize the same as any hop addition. It doesn't isomerize instantly because it needs more than just heat - it needs to be in solution. And the stuff takes forever to dissolve. Even after a full 60-minute boil and extended hop stand there are still a lot of globules of extract floating around in the wort undissolved.

I did come up with a trick that seems to help the last time I used hop extract. I mixed it in with some DME to make a paste before adding it in. My plan was to increase the surface area of the extract to help it disperse/dissolve more easily. I still have some tweaks to do to improve the process, but I do feel that it made a significant improvement - there were a lot fewer globules left in the wort and the ones that remained were a lot smaller than usual.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2017, 03:19:23 PM »
I'll need to try your DME trick eric. I normally pull of a couple of quarts and mix before adding, but that's a bit a a time suck.

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6229
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 03:32:45 PM »
I'll need to try your DME trick eric. I normally pull of a couple of quarts and mix before adding, but that's a bit a a time suck.

Last time I didn't use enough DME and the extract started to dissolve it. I think you want to get to a play-doh like consistency, where the extract is just mixed in with the DME as a dispersion.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 03:59:46 PM »
CO2 extract (hopshot/resin) is not isomorized.

Is that what he's using?  I didn't see that.  And wouldn't the isomerization happen very quickly?
Most of the extract targeted towards homebrewers is Hop Shot or similar and needs to be boiled to isomerize the same as any hop addition. It doesn't isomerize instantly because it needs more than just heat - it needs to be in solution. And the stuff takes forever to dissolve. Even after a full 60-minute boil and extended hop stand there are still a lot of globules of extract floating around in the wort undissolved.

I did come up with a trick that seems to help the last time I used hop extract. I mixed it in with some DME to make a paste before adding it in. My plan was to increase the surface area of the extract to help it disperse/dissolve more easily. I still have some tweaks to do to improve the process, but I do feel that it made a significant improvement - there were a lot fewer globules left in the wort and the ones that remained were a lot smaller than usual.

Nice trick. I agree that the stuff doesn't want to be soluble even at 60 mins.
Jon H.

Online denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19942
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 04:10:29 PM »
CO2 extract (hopshot/resin) is not isomorized.

Is that what he's using?  I didn't see that.  And wouldn't the isomerization happen very quickly?
Most of the extract targeted towards homebrewers is Hop Shot or similar and needs to be boiled to isomerize the same as any hop addition. It doesn't isomerize instantly because it needs more than just heat - it needs to be in solution. And the stuff takes forever to dissolve. Even after a full 60-minute boil and extended hop stand there are still a lot of globules of extract floating around in the wort undissolved.

I did come up with a trick that seems to help the last time I used hop extract. I mixed it in with some DME to make a paste before adding it in. My plan was to increase the surface area of the extract to help it disperse/dissolve more easily. I still have some tweaks to do to improve the process, but I do feel that it made a significant improvement - there were a lot fewer globules left in the wort and the ones that remained were a lot smaller than usual.

I helped beta test Hop Shots years ago, so I'm very familiar with them.  But if homebrewers aren't finding isomerized extract, they aren't looking.  A quick Google produced at least 5 easily available sources, including Morebeer.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 04:49:07 PM »
 That stuff is expensive! A lot of bitterness in a small bottle that is good for 480 collective IBUs in five gallon batches, but damn.

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6229
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Hop Extract & 30 Minute Boils
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2017, 05:12:02 PM »
CO2 extract (hopshot/resin) is not isomorized.

Is that what he's using?  I didn't see that.  And wouldn't the isomerization happen very quickly?
Most of the extract targeted towards homebrewers is Hop Shot or similar and needs to be boiled to isomerize the same as any hop addition. It doesn't isomerize instantly because it needs more than just heat - it needs to be in solution. And the stuff takes forever to dissolve. Even after a full 60-minute boil and extended hop stand there are still a lot of globules of extract floating around in the wort undissolved.

I did come up with a trick that seems to help the last time I used hop extract. I mixed it in with some DME to make a paste before adding it in. My plan was to increase the surface area of the extract to help it disperse/dissolve more easily. I still have some tweaks to do to improve the process, but I do feel that it made a significant improvement - there were a lot fewer globules left in the wort and the ones that remained were a lot smaller than usual.

I helped beta test Hop Shots years ago, so I'm very familiar with them.  But if homebrewers aren't finding isomerized extract, they aren't looking.  A quick Google produced at least 5 easily available sources, including Morebeer.
The ones I've seen have had a limited shelf life (2-3 months) and cost more for a small bottle than it costs for me to brew a whole batch of beer. If someone had a shelf-stable product at a reasonable price point (like Hop Shot), then I'd certainly try it out. That's probably why MoreBeer has discontinued carrying Isohop extract.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer