Author Topic: Salted tart cider  (Read 1940 times)

Offline goschman

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Salted tart cider
« on: September 16, 2017, 09:58:58 AM »
Thinking about adding some salt and perhaps some lactic acid to a finished cider. Kind of going for a gose inspired cider. Any recommendations on amounts for a 4 gallon batch?
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2017, 02:23:31 PM »
I suppose zero and zero are not the advice you were looking for.

Sorry.  I get more blunt after I've been drinking a lot.
Dave

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Offline goschman

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2017, 03:29:09 PM »
I suppose zero and zero are not the advice you were looking for.

Sorry.  I get more blunt after I've been drinking a lot.

Extremely helpful. Thanks
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Offline pete b

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2017, 05:24:02 AM »
When you say finished cider do you mean one that you already have finished or one you will make and add to when finished? The reason I ask is that if you are starting from scratch just making a tart cider and not back sweetening might be best. Otherwise maybe you could consider using malic acid instead to bring out the apple flavor. As far as salt goes just dose a measured amount in a glass to see how it tastes, maybe using a gose recipe as a starting point.
This could be tasty in my opinion. I would also consider making an apple ale with a sour mash or bugs in the fermenter.
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Offline goschman

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2017, 07:43:27 AM »
Thanks for the thoughts. This will be for a cider I am getting ready to make. I do like my ciders pretty dry but do backsweeten a bit. I was kind of thinking of keeping the dryness level the same as I am accustomed to but just adding something that would make it a bit more tart. So something that would be more semi sweet and tart versus bone dry. Maybe I will just worry about the salt for now as there are a lot of other things going on in this batch and I don't want to worry about something like a sour mash or adding bugs. 
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Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2017, 08:31:35 AM »
I suppose zero and zero are not the advice you were looking for.

Sorry.  I get more blunt after I've been drinking a lot.

I agree and I'm stone cold sober. But, it is your brew and you should do whatever you think will taste good to you. Start with the smallest amount you think you'll be able to taste and add more if needed.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 02:58:14 AM »
I agree with Pete's recommendation to use malic acid (or acid blend) rather than lactic for this.

Taste the salt first. I can't picture enjoying it myself, but it might be OK. I'm thinking something closer to a salted caramel apple rather than a gose might be where you want to set your targets. If that's the case, you could ferment dry and boil down some juice to make an apple caramel for backsweetening.
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Offline goschman

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 07:25:32 AM »
This cider will be fermented with a couple pounds of puréed mixed berries, 8 oz agave, and t58. Coriander and orange zest added at the end of fermentation. I will be wary of the salt and either dose some samples for testing or not worry about it.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 07:48:24 AM »
Most cider is tart enough on its own.  If anything, I aim to REDUCE malic acid in my ciders via malolactic bacteria (MLF), not add more acid in.

And then, adding mixed berries, there will be plenty of acidity to go around.

I wouldn't add any acid for those reasons.

The salt.... that's a personal preference thing.  If using any.... go easy on it.  Use much less than you think you should.  You can always add more, but once you add too much, you cannot take it back out.

Cheers and 2nd apologies for me being me.
Dave

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 07:51:19 AM »
I agree, Dave. It's easy to get cider plenty tart with malic acid. Nothing wrong with experimenting, either.
Jon H.

Offline goschman

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 08:02:08 AM »
I have only made a few ciders and have no experience with malic acid. I will look into it.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 08:45:10 AM »
Malic acid is very tart.  It is naturally present in all apples and is not as pleasant as lactic acid, at least not in elevated concentrations.
Dave

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Offline erockrph

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 10:07:36 AM »
Malic acid is very tart.  It is naturally present in all apples and is not as pleasant as lactic acid, at least not in elevated concentrations.
It is what they use in things like Warheads candy to make them painfully tart. And fankly, on its own it doesn't have the most pleasant flavor. That said, it is the primary acid in apples, so that is why I recommended it over lactic. I get you're going for a Gose, but at some point I'd think you'd want to emphasize the apple characteristics of the cider.

Personally, I've only used winemakers' acid blend (tartaric, malic and citric acid blend) in my ciders when needed. I bought malic acid to try out last year, but my base juice for the 2016 harvest left plenty of acidity in the finished cider and didn't need any additional acid. I'll see if I need any this year.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 10:29:59 AM »
Yeah, being the acid from apples, I prefer it, too. I guess I don't hit an unpleasant threshold in my additions, and I like cider fairly tart. Each his own though.
Jon H.

Offline goschman

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Re: Salted tart cider
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2017, 06:12:00 AM »
Cider is fermenting away. I may just dose some glasses of the finished batch to see if it's something I want to experiment with next time. Thanks for the feedback. This is normally something I would have just done and possibly been very disappointed with like numerous experimental beers.
On Tap/Bottled: Hazy IPA, BraunBier, Berry Belgian Cider, Pilsner, Doppelbraun                

Fermenting:
Up Next: Red Rye Ale, Black Lager