[Wilbur]

Trying out one of these for the first time today....https://shop.brewcraftusa.com/genesis-fermenter

Could be cool with a "no oxygen" transfer if you could pump air between the bag and the fermenter wall.

Not sure I follow you....what would be the benefit?

If you were one of those LODO guys, you could transfer beer without introducing O2. The nice thing would be you could do this if you bottle conditioned, without having to invest in a CO2 setup. You'd also be able to do this at ground level, without moving the fermenter and shaking up trub.

I kind of imagine attaching a schrader (bike pump) valve on the side, and like Stevie said, pushing air into the void between the fermenter wall and the beer bag.

Looks like an interesting product, any idea on what the liners are going to cost? Looks like the fermenter is ~$60.

I just don't think that would work.  I can,t see how the liquid would get pushed out when I stand here and look at it.

Fortunately, I remembered this is something Heineken came up with as a keg alternative.



More info: http://www.bevindustry.com/articles/88310-heineken-usa-develops-brewlock-technology-for-draft-beer

You'd have to be able to seal between the bag and the fermenter wall, but that doesn't seem impossible as long as you keep the pressure low. Hopefully that pic clears up what I'm talking about.

[bayareabrewer]

You guys are missing the fact that you don't have to use a liner...it's optional.  The fermenter itself is much heavier and oxygen impervious than a plastic water jug.

is it that much better than a better bottle?

[denny]

You guys are missing the fact that you don't have to use a liner...it's optional.  The fermenter itself is much heavier and oxygen impervious than a plastic water jug.

is it that much better than a better bottle?

It's much heavier than a BB.  Here's a copy of a Facebook post from Brewcraft....

there is actually a dual layer of Polyethylene within the liner.

High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) and Linear Low Density Polyethylene (LLDPE) are essentially the same material but in different forms. HDPE has a more densely packed crystalline structure which gives it more rigidity so was selected for the shell of the Genesis, while LLDPE has a more ductile form factor which makes it perfect for the liner.

While the Liner is optional, it does come with the purchase of the Genesis (two of them actually). The liner is also IMO the preferred method of use, as it acts as an excellent oxygen barrier as well as eliminates the need to clean or sanitize the Genesis as it comes sanitary. There are also other uses for the liner such as transportation of liquid as it comes with a seal-able screw cap

[bayareabrewer]

hmm, cask ale straight from the liner maybe?

[Wilbur]

Trying out one of these for the first time today....https://shop.brewcraftusa.com/genesis-fermenter

Hey Denny, so what is the idea behind this. Easy or no cleanup by using the bags, no sanitation required?

I think there is a market for people who want to minimize cleanup and sanitation. If you BIAB or extract, you don't have a lot to clean on the hot side. There's still kegs or bottles, but with a brewlock style keg feature you could single vessel ferment & serve.

The other part is something I feel like I see in products all the time, which is companies trying to convert from a up front purchase to a continued use cost model. Some business major looked at the printer market, and realized where all the money is at. Look at the Picobrew C/Pro, etc. You can only make so much money selling a brewing setup for $800. If you can lock people into buying 5 L brew kits for $25/ea, you can have a continuous revenue source.

The other thought that popped in my mind last night-great for trying out sour brewing. If you don't want to worry about some brett lurking in a scratch, this'd be a little extra insurance.

[brewsumore]

I'd rather spend a little time cleaning and sanitizing my buckets than create more garbage into the world.  We're such a throw away society - IMHO it's awful.

[Slowbrew]

Trying out one of these for the first time today....https://shop.brewcraftusa.com/genesis-fermenter

Hey Denny, so what is the idea behind this. Easy or no cleanup by using the bags, no sanitation required?

I think there is a market for people who want to minimize cleanup and sanitation. If you BIAB or extract, you don't have a lot to clean on the hot side. There's still kegs or bottles, but with a brewlock style keg feature you could single vessel ferment & serve.

The other part is something I feel like I see in products all the time, which is companies trying to convert from a up front purchase to a continued use cost model. Some business major looked at the printer market, and realized where all the money is at. Look at the Picobrew C/Pro, etc. You can only make so much money selling a brewing setup for $800. If you can lock people into buying 5 L brew kits for $25/ea, you can have a continuous revenue source.

The other thought that popped in my mind last night-great for trying out sour brewing. If you don't want to worry about some brett lurking in a scratch, this'd be a little extra insurance.

It's the Kurig coffee business model.  I know a guy who picks up barely working Kurigs at garage sales for the serial numbers.  Calls in and reports them broken and gets a new one sent to him.  Coffee pot isn't where the money is, it's all in the little cups.

It may work for some people but cleaning doesn't take that long in my mind.

Paul

[Wilbur]

I'd rather spend a little time cleaning and sanitizing my buckets than create more garbage into the world.  We're such a throw away society - IMHO it's awful.

Agree on the throwaway culture, and it's amazing that when we have more people than ever in this world, more things are designed to not be rebuilt or refurbished.

I will say in terms of sustainability, it's really hard to judge what's better than just reusable vs. throw away parts. Do you sanitize by completely filling your carboy? How much water does it take to make these bags? Does your used cleaning water get used as grey water, or dumped down the drain? Shipping is also a huge sustainability drain, when considering grain it probably far outstrips the cost of chucking a bag away. That organic, floor malted MO probably has a bigger environmental impact than these bags, especially compared to getting locally sourced two row. I'm not advocating for not brewing the beer your heart desires, just trying to make a point. The real irony is I just bought a sack of Bairds MO, so watch me put my foot in my mouth while sitting on my high horse. 

[denny]

I'd rather spend a little time cleaning and sanitizing my buckets than create more garbage into the world.  We're such a throw away society - IMHO it's awful.

Which is why the liner is optional.  I likely won't use one after I use the 2 it comes with.

[Visor]

I'd rather spend a little time cleaning and sanitizing my buckets than create more garbage into the world.  We're such a throw away society - IMHO it's awful.

   Amen to that!
   In 30 years in the building trades, there were a few properties I helped build new buildings on 3 times, take about an obscene waste of resources and landfill space, there's your poster child. Sorry about going off topic.

[Wilbur]

I'd rather spend a little time cleaning and sanitizing my buckets than create more garbage into the world.  We're such a throw away society - IMHO it's awful.

Which is why the liner is optional.  I likely won't use one after I use the 2 it comes with.

Question on the actual product (Weird, right?)...are the handles hollow on the inside like a milk jug? Or solid?

Update: Looks like Love2Brew has listings on for the fermenter and the liners: $60/Fermenter, $4.95/Liner. Makes it a little expensive for using all the time. For comparison, a 6.5 gallon bucket is $12.99, $40 for a 6 gallon glass carboy, $29 for a wide mouth plastic carboy, $100 for a fastferment (7.9 gallons).

[denny]

I'd rather spend a little time cleaning and sanitizing my buckets than create more garbage into the world.  We're such a throw away society - IMHO it's awful.

Which is why the liner is optional.  I likely won't use one after I use the 2 it comes with.

Question on the actual product (Weird, right?)...are the handles hollow on the inside like a milk jug? Or solid?

Update: Looks like Love2Brew has listings on for the fermenter and the liners: $60/Fermenter, $4.95/Liner. Makes it a little expensive for using all the time. For comparison, a 6.5 gallon bucket is $12.99, $40 for a 6 gallon glass carboy, $29 for a wide mouth plastic carboy, $100 for a fastferment (7.9 gallons).

I really don't know about the handles.  I'll check when I'm done fermenting the current batch.

As to the price, it is what it is....like any other product, people are free to decide if it's worth it to them.  It's about the same price as a Speidel and people buy those.

[Nathan]

Saving up for a conical  this looks gimmicky


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[denny]

Saving up for a conical  this looks gimmicky


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Why is it more gimmicky than the Speidel or other fermenters?  Assume someone isn't interested in a conical (like me)....why shouldn't someone consider this?

[brewsumore]

Is it plastic?